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It's Your Thread, Mystic, so nobody is more entitled than you to post your views.
It might help, Cardinals old mate, to note that it is not so much that Jesus is the Only way, but Jesus is the Best way, so far, It's like this.
In order of developing evolution of the human spirit through religious example,
Egyptian and Babylonian religion
Hinduism
Greek and Roman religion
Zoroastrian religion
Islam
Judaism
Buddhism and Taoism
Christianity.
That is the last revelation: there are no more revelations. The suggestion that atheist Humanism might be the next step on the learning curve Mystic gave the same sort of reception you Cardinals, Mate will probably give seeing where Islam rates in terms of Enlightenment.
Arq, old friend, what you call Humanism is part of Christianity, as is Veganism - it is a universal love for all manifesting as Agape or Maitri in Buddhism. The lion and the lamb will lie down together, etc. The descriptions of Jesus and by Jesus match perfectly (to my best ability to discern) the consciousness I encountered in deep meditation. That is why I identify Him as the one who achieved perfect resonance. The legends and myths following the same spiritual template over populations and generations are what lead me to select the Jesus narrative as manifesting the ultimate expression of it.
Of course. Religions have always fastened onto social conventions and claimed the credit for them, just as it now claims the authorship of anything that looks good about humanism while blaming anything that isn't so good (which I would ascribe myself to a lack of education about humanism) to a lack of religion.
I buy that one no more than I bought the Soviet argument that Communism was coming apart not because it was failing, but because it wasn't being applied diligently enough. And it struck me that in the same office a Catholic was arguing that Christianity hadn't failed - it had never been tried.
I won't comment much about Veganism, but Vegans might not care for you snaffling all the moral credit they get for their studiously Jainist cuisine and using it as selling point for Agape love, of which I may say, I have seen little by those who most bang its' drum.
Oh, and my perceptions of the Gospel Jesus show a personality so split that he was either a very flawed human being or just the fictional mouthpiece for a lot of rather different sayings.
Thus whatever YOU experienced in Deep meditation, is nothing to do with the Gospel Jesus (much less the historical one), no matter how much you may tell yourself it is.
Old mate, I'm trying (if anything ) to wean you off this absurd Christianity fixation that adds an extra layer of denial and absurdity to your already speculative hypothesis. You might do better with Buddhism, if you can't stomach secular humanism as the next step in the learning curve which is, in my view, human social evolution, without the out of order "lessons" of the religions to push it along.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-27-2018 at 02:51 PM..
....Some atheist zealots can be as bull-headedly dogmatic and uncritical as any religious zealot.
Yes. That is correct. I agree.
They are identical in that regard, the atheist zealot and the religious zealot. A zealot is a zealot and the posts and views they put forth are the antithesis of rational discourse. Another word for zealot is fanatic.
My observation is that people who are anti-religion or anti-theists come across as fanatics. Just like if someone is virulently anti-men or anti-government.
The simple solution to not sounding like a fanatic is to talk in terms of human behaviors or specific concerns.
If someone boasts and preens about how intellectually superior they are, and how intelligent and rational they are, but their posts or articles make them "sound like idiots" then yes the discrepancy is going to be noted.
If an atheist says "see us as individuals" but does not see religious people as individuals then yes that double standard will be pointed out.
If someone wants serious discourse on his ideas and views but routinely ridicules and denigrates ideas he does not understand or approve of yes that double standard will be pointed out.
For the most part that is NOT you Gaylen. You generally communicate in good faith with courtesy and respect and show a willingness to actually discuss and explore ideas and topics.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-27-2018 at 08:54 PM..
They are identical in that regard, the atheist zealot and the religious zealot. A zealot is a zealot and the posts and views they put forth are the antithesis of rational discourse. Another word for zealot is fanatic.
My observation is that people who are anti-religion or anti-theists are fanatics.
The simple solution to not sounding like a fanatic is to talk in terms of human behaviors or specific concerns.
If someone boasts and preens about how intellectually superior they are, and how intelligent and rational they are, but their posts or articles make them "sound like idiots" then yes the discrepancy is going to be noted.
If an atheist says "see us as individuals" but does not see religious people as individuals then yes that double standard will be pointed out.
If someone wants serious discourse on his ideas and views but routinely ridicules and denigrates ideas he does not understand or approve of yes that double standard will be pointed out.
For the most part that is NOT you Gaylen. You generally communicate in good faith with courtesy and respect and show a willingness to actually discuss and explore ideas and topics.
...It was surprising for me, when I first encountered it, to see that Theiststhink in terms of belief - or not. Weight of evidence and probability based on that, and degrees of how much credence we may put into this or that idea, based on that evidence, is foreign to them.
...And of course they suppose we think like that, too. Once this is understood, one ought not to be astonished at the argument-method. Though, in fact, I always am.
...they characterize how we think is good old Projection, simply ignoring or dismissing any correction of this is a characteristic of rejecting any information that does not fit their beliefs.....
Theists all think the same Trans? Using that logic of yours then atheists all think the same.
But wait! What was it you said earlier "atheists are individuals not all the same" . Therefore theists are individuals and most certainly don't all think the same. We are a diverse bunch.
Calling you on double standard again Trans.
Your posts advertise how you think Trans. And thay are screaming double standard.
Just read a story about a bar making a word intolerable, if they said the particular word in the bar, they have 5 min to finish they drink and get out of the bar.
That word should be,'' Agape.''
I think it maybe the most evil word in the universe.
Agape?
Go look in the dark and you will see my eyes peering back at you, and although I am not the actual,'' SATAN,'' I do happen to host the spirits of eschaton.
Barricade your doors and put up UV rays, and the blood suckers will still come, they come.
Well, My pipes froze during the winter holocaust in Houston and last time I was this stressed, it was the last time the pipes froze, so much brazen metal between the foundation and the penthouse, they are all bust like before, and I am praying for the Zombie apocalypse to come so's I wont be so stressed out, I mean really, '' Who shall fix all the brazen water lines, I don't even know how to Braze couplings together. I try and try and there is never enough fire. You can't put glue on Brazen pipes, ya see, Metal breaths, when it is cold, it will become small, but add some heat and it will expand. The expansion will release the binds of the glue, metal on metal.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 01-27-2018 at 09:03 PM..
Since none of us can directly experience or analyze your mystical insight, none of us can say, with certainty, that you are wrong about this. But I think it would be foolish for anyone to simply accept your word on this unless, of course, they have a mystical experience of their own that leads them to the same conclusion. I don't see any scientific or logical reasons to accept your views about the role of Jesus.
Although I have no basis for telling you how to interpret your own mystical experience, I am going to take some liberties and engage in some speculations that, in principle, could nudge you toward a different interpretation. (Or, at least, it could give the rest of us some interesting options to consider.)
I think I recall you saying that, after your experience, you searched around for a way to make sense of it, and you eventually settled on the Jesus narrative as the best fit. This suggests to me that the experience, in and of itself, did not come pre-packaged with any one particular necessary interpretation. Based on this, then, you ought to accept that other interpretations are logically possible, and you ought to accept the logical possibility that, ultimately, the interpretation you are giving us is not actually the best one (in the sense that, there could be an interpretation that, if it occurred to you, then you might feel compelled to switch to the new interpretation).
Your experience does not, in itself, specify that Jesus is the perfect resonance with God, nor does it specify that Jesus is the only perfect resonance with God. I am reminded of a passage from Illusions, by Richard Bach: "Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you are alive, it isn't." Since you are presumably still alive, then maybe your current interpretation is a step on a path, rather than a final destination? Just a thought. Anywayz, I am simply not convinced that Jesus is the perfect resonance, and even if he is, I'm not convinced that he is the only perfect one.
I think your story would work just as well this way: On a spectrum ranking "nearness to a perfect match" resonance with God's consciousness, Jesus is sufficiently high enough on the scale such that his words resonate with lots of other people, and in this way it tends to "pull" people toward the higher end of the spectrum. (Probably so do the words of Buddha and lots of other people.) Basically, if I am, say, a 6 on the scale and I interact in the right way with someone who is 8 on the scale, then the resonance of my consciousness will shift toward the higher end.
Of course there are lots of assumptions here, and I don't actually accept very many of them, but one assumption in particular that I'd like to challenge is the idea that there is one-and-only-one perfect "wavelength" (so to speak) that counts as God's perfect consciousness. If I were to go very far down this path, I'd be more likely to suggest something more like this:
A bunch of pendulum clocks mounted to a wall can all start out at different points in their pendulum arcs, but over time they will all end up in sync. This is not because any one particular clock was "more powerful" or "more perfect" than any other and thus drew all of the other clocks to match it's rhythm. No - rather, the nature of the swinging-pendulum dynamics is simply such that, through micro-vibrations in the wall, all of the chaotically swinging pendulums will eventually slip down the thermodynamic gradient until, eventually, they all end up in sync. The particular rhythm that they all settle into is not a magically pre-ordained point, but is, instead, something that can be mathematically described as an "attractor" that depends on the overall holistic nature of the dynamic system. Instead of there being a "thing" that "pulls" the individuals into sync, there is simply a rhythm that, due to their interconnected nature, all of the clocks will eventually settle into. Maybe Jesus (and, perhaps, some others?) happen to already be in (or very close to) the rhythm that others will, in the long run, eventually adopt. Thus instead of "pushing" or "pulling" we have something more like a natural "evolution toward"...
And your mystical experience might be a temporary "leap ahead" (via means that we currently don't have a good way to mathematically model) into something close to the attractor point.
I'm not at all sure that any of this really makes much sense, but...just some thoughts.
This is a really really good post that makes many many excellent posts. Bravo.
...
Your experience does not, in itself, specify that Jesus is the perfect resonance with God, nor does it specify that Jesus is the only perfect resonance with God.
... I am simply not convinced that Jesus is the perfect resonance, and even if he is, I'm not convinced that he is the only perfect one.
...one assumption in particular that I'd like to challenge is the idea that there is one-and-only-one perfect "wavelength" (so to speak) that counts as God's perfect consciousness
.....
Excellent point.
Another person on CD states succinctly and well and accurately the problem you address Gaylen of the one and only or sole resonance with God. I whole heartedly agree with this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
...
It takes a tremendous arrogance to believe that YOU are in SOLE possession of the Truth, especially about such a weighty and consequential subject......
It can make sense to MPD and he can have whatever beliefs he chooses. But there is no "one" or "perfect" way to God. That's why there are many paths many teachers many traditions. From the dawn of time every person is in perfect resonance with God. The extent that it actually outpictures in our daily life is determined by our awareness of it and the extent to which we actively cultivate and nourish that relationship.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-27-2018 at 09:43 PM..
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