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The Bible. 66 books all attesting to him. All about him. Not that you'll suddenly believe it and repent. Proof is irrelevant if you're not willing to consider it.
names can get diverted slowly and by long time the same name could be completly different than the origin names and new langauge is created and new nations are generated and some people move to another places and they create new names extracted from the origin
for example in the same comunity and same nations How are you it can be said as howya
Allah told us that he created us to worship him
And I (Allah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone). The Holy Quran
how would the first people on earth would pray to Allah and worship him if they do not know the langauge .
the verse in the Quran of Adam got all the names from Allah is one of the many evidances of the Quran and it is not fair for your self to reject all of them and try to create exit and fake justification for each one.
Pulsar SOUND , human development inside the womb , world's lowest point , earth rotation, total number of joints,
moon phases and others could not be mentioned by a desert man and more than 1400 years ago.
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that can not be before Noah
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I will not deny or confirm that the flood was for the whole earth or for some area but because the flood is mentioned in the Quran it is true 100%
You have already told us the bible is wrong. Why do you keep bringing up bible characters? Noah, Adam and Eve and so on.
The bit about God naming all things is wrong too. For starters, in the story - and it is only a story - God named things in the Garden of Eden.
Originally Posted by omega2XX
Before I was converted I would agree with you. I came a different route. I was not raised in a Christian home. I att4ended church off and on, mostly off, most of my married life. I was converted after I had decided not to ever attend church again, because it made no sense. The change made God as real as anything I can see. Most Christians will tell you the same thing---we know something sdupernatural happened that we can't explain.
How did you know it was supernatural? If you can't explain it, how did you come up with the explanation of it being a God? Wouldn't something you cannot explain best be put in the category of "I don't know"?
More denial, false claims, accusations. Anyone following the posts can see you didn't answer a darn thing. You're Eusebius, not a shadow of doubt now, and you are as soundly debunked and discredited as he was.
P.s. just for anyone wondering, while I refuted the ape with a gun remark, it was in any case irrelevant to the case for human evolution, human evolution is irrelevant to the case for a god and the case for a god is irrelevant for substantiation of the Gospel Jesus. It is either idiocy or misdirection.
Game over, old pal.
More Golden garbage, old mate. Instead of addressing the point, you peddle your tired old semantic fiddle. You too are debunked and discredited.
Isn' there any apologists who can make a decent fist of a case for Jesus
It is YOU with the semantic fiddle.
Redacting and excising the known definitions that discredit and debunk the illogical concept you embrace.
I fully agree, acknowledge, and accept that "G-O-D" is defined as Religious Deities and mythological characters. But they are mere representations and do not have objective physical existence.
It is upon those that perceive those manifestations of GOD to prove they exist.
But, it is A FACT (Do you need proof again?) that "G-O-D" is not just defined as Religious Deities and mythological characters. But YOU do the "semantic fiddling" of a biased refusal to agree, acknowledge, and accept that, even when presented with the proof.
You have never contested it, let alone debunked it. It is YOU, et al, that is debunked by that fact and that proof.
And you know it. And you know that I know it.
As far as Jesus actually existing. Doesn't matter...He has more influence than anyone in human history, no matter what.
Another amusing comment based on ignorance and bias. Many Christians are far better at rational though than you are. In fact a comment like that points to your lack of rational thought. It seems your zombie switch does not have an off position.
You keep spouting the same old unsubstantiated rhetoric. It is not rational to believe in supernatural beings doing supernatural things on faith and no evidence. You easily dismiss those who follow other religions that do the same thing. I stand by my assertion, you are in zombie mode no different than a Muslim.
It is YOU with the semantic fiddle.
Redacting and excising the known definitions that discredit and debunk the illogical concept you embrace.
I fully agree, acknowledge, and accept that "G-O-D" is defined as Religious Deities and mythological characters. But they are mere representations and do not have objective physical existence.
It is upon those that perceive those manifestations of GOD to prove they exist.
But, it is A FACT (Do you need proof again?) that "G-O-D" is not just defined as Religious Deities and mythological characters. But YOU do the "semantic fiddling" of a biased refusal to agree, acknowledge, and accept that, even when presented with the proof.
You have never contested it, let alone debunked it. It is YOU, et al, that is debunked by that fact and that proof.
And you know it. And you know that I know it.
As far as Jesus actually existing. Doesn't matter...He has more influence than anyone in human history, no matter what.
Content with comfortable lies eh? Suit yourself. We are not.
You keep spouting the same old unsubstantiated rhetoric. It is not rational to believe in supernatural beings doing supernatural things on faith and no evidence. You easily dismiss those who follow other religions that do the same thing. I stand by my assertion, you are in zombie mode no different than a Muslim.
Eyes shut, fingers in ears, chanting 'La -la..I'm right..you are wrong..la -la.."
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Originally Posted by reed067
I've seen books that say vampires are real too.
Astrology is even older than that, and indeed it has such "Mojo" as our pal Goldnrule might put it that it hasn't gone away even today. But how much influence does it have on sicnce, technology, philosophy, medicine, ethics or politics? Little or none.
Antiquity proves nothing. Popular adherence to it proves nothing. Validated evidence proves to be better every time.
You have already told us the bible is wrong. Why do you keep bringing up bible characters? Noah, Adam and Eve and so on.
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I am not bringing from the Bible
The Bible can not be accepted as the word of Allah because man played in it by adding and deleting and modifying things in it.
but it can be used as supporter source for the valid things.
I am bringing form the fourth and final Holy Book from Allah and that is the Holy Quran and the Holy Quran is not part of the Bible.
Allah send 4 Holy Books and 2 scriptures they are
The Holy Torah send to the messenger Musa (Moses )
The Holy Psalms (Zaboor) send to the Prophet Dawood (David)
The Holy Gospel (Ingeel) send to the messenger Isa (Jesus)
The Holy Quran send to the final messenger Mahammad
and the scriptures are
The scriptures of Ibrahim and Musa.
All the above books are not remaining the same as it was from Allah except The final one The Holy Quran. and The Holy Quran Abrogated all the previous Holy Books.
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The bit about God naming all things is wrong too. For starters, in the story - and it is only a story - God named things in the Garden of Eden.
what ever
that does not impact that Allah taught Adam all the names.
It's not necessary, because of course a lot of Churches and Christians don't do that. There are quite a few theist evolutionists about. I put it down to a dogma of Bible literalism where everything in the Bible has to be literally true, and if the evidence doesn't support it, then the evidence is wrong. That is absolutely how their dogma works.
Everything in the Bible must be literal is not taught in most Christians denominations.
"God created the heavens and the earth," on the other hand is a statement of belief and nothing more. It has no effect on reality. Most of us discover quite early in life that things are not true do not occur simply because we say so. Although some keep trying.
That He did not is also a statement of belief. Since you accept evolution as true, you have not learned that believing something does not make it true, but you keep trying.
Genesis 33:
[22] And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
[23] And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
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One of my favorite passages from the Bible. God showed Moses his butt and Moses was exalted for all time. The great irony is that such an act is generally a considered a sign of contempt. But we know it happened because whoever wrote the Book of Exodus said so.
It is a big mistake to try and apply secular thinking to Biblical passages. I have a written record and you can't show it is not true. All you have is your predetermined bias.
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Apparently God use to take on the appearance of George Burns. But then he switched to Morgan Freeman. Except for in Dogma, when it was Alanis Morissette. But I suppose that "physical characteristics" could mean anything from a table to a burning bush. But tell me. Where is God when he is ACTUALLYNEEDED?
Try skipping the silly rhetoric and maybe you will learn something
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People often confirm that God is there for them answering their prayers. When they get that promotion they have been praying for, or when their team wins the big game. Just as they prayed it would. And yet when a psycho comes into a classroom full of six year old's armed with a hand gun and an intent to shoot each one in the head at point blank range, or when a tornado causes a brick church wall to collapse on and kill worshipers in the very ACT of praying to God... in other words when faith comes face to face with physical reality, physical reality inevitably prevails. And God is nowhere to be found. A God who is not there for these individuals and who does not act at a moment of extreme physical peril is in no way different from a God who never existed to begin with.
You don't understand Biblical faith and when a Christian gets killed by a psycho, guess where he ends up. Death for a Christians is not a horrible thing.
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In 1994 a tornado hit the Goshen Alabama Methodist Church during Sunday service, causing the walls of the church to collapse. Twenty people died including six children. Why would God allow the deaths of those in His own house of worship, including the most innocent, who were there in the very act of worshiping him, when all He had to do was to prevent the walls from collapsing? The problem is that when put to the test, make believe is invariably unaffected by the harsh realities of real life. If a wall falls on you, or a mad man shoots you in the head, make believe does not serve as protection. Even for innocent children. Piedmont Journal - Tried by Deadly Tornado, An Anchor of Faith Holds - NYTimes.com
God hasn't promised us a rose garden in this life. We get it in the next life.
In 2012, after shooting and killing his own mother, a mentally unstable man went to the Sandy Hook Elementary School and methodically shot 20 six year olds and a teacher in the head. A Supreme Being would really have come in handy that day. Did God just sit there and watch the whole thing? Or was he distracted, too busy fulfilling the mundane prayers of others? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_...chool_shooting
The point is, in real life what we actually observe is that when the chips are down and faith is confronted by reality, reality will ALWAYS win out. When the chips are down and a Supreme Being would really REALLY come in handy, God, invisible unknowable but assumed to exist anyway God, will invariably act in exactly the same manner as a God who isn't actually there. In fact a God who refuses to act even in the face of the ultimate crisis of life and death for the most innocent of His followers is a God who corresponds in every way to A GOD WHO NEVER EXISTED TO BEGIN WITH! What exactly is the difference? This is as close to an empirical test for the actual existence of God as one might reasonably hope for. And in these sorts of make or break tests, the result for the question "does God exist," invariably corresponds in every way to a negative finding.
Now let me make it clear. I do not blame God for what occurred at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, in exactly the same way that I hold no grudge against Santa for not ACTUALLY coming to my house each Christmas. Being angry at imaginary things serves no purpose at all.
Being angry at an omniscient God also serves no purpose. Understanding God, which is hard to do at times, is the important part. Christians give the life to God, and are willing to accept whatever He decides to do with it. Death is not feared like it is for humanists. We ar not like those who have no hope.
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Unless you have a first cause for God I don't require a first cause for energy. Energy actually exists, because it is us. All experimentation on energy indicates that it can neither be created or destroyed. The idea of God is derived from the imagination of a being who is composed of energy. You are the ultimate cause for the God you imagine exists. The first cause for the energy that you are composed of is not apparent.
An omnipotent God can and did create energy, matter and life. You have to choose between God being eternal and energy being eternal, which is very unlikely in an ordered universe.
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So is energy REALLY eternal. I don't know! All I can do is consider that which can be observed. Make it up and declare it to be true has no obvious potential for leading to anything valid, I am afraid.
You can't observe the origin of energy.
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"We all had a starting point in the journey we call life. But there was a time before we existed. Yet every particle in our bodies then already existed. Every particle in our bodies now already existed. I am 69, so I have pretty much changed out every particle in my body over the course of those years. Particles of energy that clump together to form matter apparently exist eternally, according to all observation and experimentation."
If God exists without a first cause then clearly it is possible to exist without a first cause. No one is claiming that our sort of life has existed eternally.
Does this occur only to Christians? Or is it a valid experience among other religions as well?
imagination
[ih-maj-uh-ney-shuh n]
noun
1. the faculty of imagining, or of forming mental images or concepts of what is not actually present to the senses.
2. the action or process of forming such images or concepts.
3. the faculty of producing ideal creations consistent with reality, as in literature, as distinct from the power of creating illustrative or decorative imagery.
Compare fancy.
4. the product of imagining; a conception or mental creation, often a baseless or fanciful one.
Establish for me that your belief in God does not conform in every way to the definition of that which occurs in the imagination.
If I had always believe in God I would accept that definition, for for Christians is is not valid. No one is born a Christian and they will all tell you that something happened in their life that made God real for them.
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Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Humans were no more or less smarter 2,000 or 5,000 years ago than they are now. The difference is in how much KNOWLEDGE has been acquired over the course of those years. We are not smarter now, but were KNOW vastly more now than they did thousands of years ago. As well we should. Every generation builds on the store of knowledge of the last generation.
Agreed.
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You might also consider how many flat out geniuses who would have other wise toiled and lived out their lives in obscurity over the centuries, now get to go to universities and compare their thoughts with other genius minds. The rapid acceleration of scientific understanding that has been occurring just in the last couple of centuries is no accident.
There are geniuses on both sides of the fence
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