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That is the biggest lie you've ever told on this forum.
Perhaps ever ... in your life.
I admitted on this very forum that I was wrong to ever defend Josh Duggar. But I won't expect an apology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Why should we admit failure if we haven't yet failed?
Wow, so you really think you have never been wrong or failed at anything EVER in life? The egotistical nature of atheists is the reason why I almost never get the last word with these discussions. You always have to one-up me. But that's ok because I'm not a slave to the sin of pride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Well, that may be ... but I'm sure you've heard the quote: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
America certainly wouldn't be the first advanced society that succumbed to primitive superstitions and fundamentalist religions.
I'm seriously reaching a point where I don't even give a damn anymore.
The Bible is quite relevant and true to even our modern technologically advanced society. Those "primitive superstitions" has allowed someone like Dave Ramsey to rescue thousands from financial ruin based on the principles found right in the Bible.
You don't know the Bible very well. God does not delight in animal sacrifice.
If it is debatable, the wealth of evidence is on my side. You have a single verse with nothing much a surface level interpretation. If we go with your claim then a person has to ignore countless other verses that clearly and emphatically teach that the death of Christ made the OT laws null and void. Here is just one of many:
Glad to know you reject the ten commandments. Jesus only discounted the first four--and those by omission. Let's see if you can find where, o master of Scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The wages of sin is death. Christ paid that death penalty by becoming the pure living human sacrifice for all mankind. So we have to not only ignore much of the Bible, but pretty much toss out the very foundations of Christianity if we go with your interpretation. Even the verse you refer to is not really problematic when you see that Christ is saying that his mission was not to wipe the laws off the books and create new ones. His mission was to fullfill the purpose of the law.
Fulfilling the LAW was done by making it HARDER in some cases so fundamentalists could know they were as guilty as us plain old "sinners," and there was outright reversal of other OT LAW.. See the Bible lesson in post #260
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Salvation comes from the heart, not a physical action. My perspective is God didn't even really care about the physical actions in the OT. They were only the vehicle where He could gauge the hearts and minds of the people if they truly desired to be sin free and have a desire to seek God and righteousness.
Salvation comes from God and will be given to whoever He desires. There are plenty of believers who have verses that suggest God will forgive EVERYONE, regardless of belief. And whatever you and I may think there is not enough Scriptural evidence for either view.
But try reading the book of Jonah (a man who didn't want to preach salvation to the Ninevites and whom God had said would perish). After Jonah preached they all repented--God repented of His thought to destroy them. The only person who didn't repent was fundamentalist Jonah.
Compare Jonah then with the story of the prodigal son who was NOT faithful, but still acceptable, and the jealousy of his brother who felt he, himself, was "fundamentally" --- better. And compare it to the parable of the 99 sheep and the one which was lost. No shepherd in his right mind would have left the "safe" sheep alone to look for one that was lost---but that is the message of Jesus as to how important the lost are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
America was once a nation that respected and honored God. Even most businesses once closed on Sunday. And we were once the greatest nation in the world, blessed with prosperity. Funny that now your secular humanistic ideology has infused a cancer in the minds and hearts of the current generation, our country is thick with problems and tragedies. Since i believe in the whole Bible, I anticipate this is only the tip of the iceberg. People who have put their faith in technology and science will have no hope. They will be like the people wishing they had not mocked God when the floods come. The recent hurricanes reminds me of this verse:
"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea." Luke 21:25
Why is it that fundamentalist christians then vote for congressmen and Senators who believe climate warming is a hoax? Fundamentalists are selfish and want their own economic situation to be great even if it means destroying the planet for their progeny.
America was once a great nation--but "bible believing" christians have always been a thorn in its side. People actually killed one another in Philadelphia over which Bible was to be taught in schools--Protestant or Catholic.
Quote:
The rise of the Nativist movement in the United States was a backlash against the large tide of Irish and German immigrants. Nativism had been growing since the mid-1840s in response to massive immigration, especially from Ireland and Germany. Many of these immigrants had become part of urban Democratic political machines, much to the resentment of non-Democratic old-stock Americans. The Irish, because of their numbers, command of the English language, and political behavior, were obvious targets for these groups that wanted to restrict immigration to only those that fit the "American" ideal. The Irish also constituted about 43 percent of the foreign born in the middle of the century.
In 1844, the complaint by Catholics that their children were required to read from the King James Bible each morning in the Public Schools led to a series of riots in the city of Philadelphia over the issue. The King James Bible was required reading in all Pennsylvania public schools, in part because of the efforts of James Buchanan, the future president.
Buchanan was a Pennsylvania legislator for many years, and in the 1830's pushed through legislation creating the first state mandated public schools in the nation. However, in an effort to keep religiosity a part of the curriculum, the Legislature inserted the daily Bible reading. The Catholics objected over what they saw as a heavy handed attempt to undermine their religion when the substitution of the Catholic Bible was not allowed.
What had started over not so much a separation of Church and State, but rather whose religious interests would be represented, soon divided the city. The anti-Catholic, anti-papal feeling on the part of many of the members of the anti-immigration movement soon bubbled over to the top. Rancor on the part of the Nativists turned into actual physical action. The churches of the Irish Catholics were the primary targets of the Nativists attacks. Of the Catholic Churches burnt during the series of riots, all of the targets were Irish. Although the German Catholics had a large presence in the city, none of their churches were touched. Again, this was often because the Irish were the most prominent immigrant group, and were the most vocal about the conditions of life around them, both spiritual and social.
Though a number of people died as a result of the Bible Riots, the end result wasn't as bad as it might have been. There was more property damage than deaths as an outcome of the attacks. Rather, there was a split in society that took a long time to heal. And, as another by-product of the attacks, the Irish were more galvanized as a force, more determined to shape their lives in this new American society. They took up the challenge to become more involved in politics, the labor movement, and society in general. The Irish learned how to make the system of government work for them, to protect them, and eventually become an extension of them.
The Philadelphia Bible Riots
Never say that Bible reading or prayer in school is not divisive. It has been, it would be, and it will be if your ilk get their way.
And see how history repeats itself!! Once again we have the religious right calling for a ban on immigration, cheering for a useless "wall," and demonizing what are primarily people looking for work when the come to America--whether legally or illegally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
All your comments only show me that you have an extreme ignorance about the Bible and our beliefs. You have a very myopic stereotypical viewpoint of Christians and people in the South as well. We're just all backward, ignorant bigots to you. Kinda reminds me how people up North thinks everyone in Texas rides horses, wears cowboys hats and kicks around tumbleweeds.
All your comments show extreme ignorance about the Bible and have resulted in FALSE beliefs about it.
And I was born in Alabama and had a considerable time in my youth living there and in Georgia, Mississippi, and Louisiana. My own family was subtly racist. The Bible, too frequently in the South, is a weapon used to disenfranchise other people. I just watched part of a film about a woman who was a pastor at a good sized church in Mississippi and made the mistake of "confessing" she was a lesbian to two close "friends" in her church:
Quote:
The immensely strong hold of the Bible Belt culture transcends nearly every aspect of lesbian life in southern Mississippi. Most women interviewed, regardless of age, race, or background have some deep familial connection to church. One woman, BB, is a former pastor who was outed to her congregation before she could even tell her loved ones. Being shamed by her church was tantamount to losing her community and her job. Her partner, Susan, runs a gym that the church instructed the congregants not to use, which cost her about a third of all her business. As part of the “love the sinner, hate the sin” culture, many townspeople are still polite and cordial to their faces. Or, as Susan says, “They don't have the balls to say it to your face. Then they'll see you in Walmart and ask how your mama is.”
Glad to know you reject the ten commandments. Jesus only discounted the first four--and those by omission. Let's see if you can find where, o master of Scripture.
Fulfilling the LAW was done by making it HARDER in some cases so fundamentalists could know they were as guilty as us plain old "sinners," and there was outright reversal of other OT LAW.. See the Bible lesson in post #260
Salvation comes from God and will be given to whoever He desires. There are plenty of believers who have verses that suggest God will forgive EVERYONE, regardless of belief. And whatever you and I may think there is not enough Scriptural evidence for either view.
Salvation was made possible by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is available to anyone willing to repent of their sins and die to their own nature. Your beliefs are radical and have little in common with mainstream Christianity. I certainly have ZERO reason to even consider your position for a millisecond when you come at me with same mockery condescending tone and personal insults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
But try reading the book of Jonah (a man who didn't want to preach salvation to the Ninevites and whom God had said would perish). After Jonah preached they all repented--God repented of His thought to destroy them. The only person who didn't repent was fundamentalist Jonah.
Compare Jonah then with the story of the prodigal son who was NOT faithful, but still acceptable, and the jealousy of his brother who felt he, himself, was "fundamentally" --- better. And compare it to the parable of the 99 sheep and the one which was lost. No shepherd in his right mind would have left the "safe" sheep alone to look for one that was lost---but that is the message of Jesus as to how important the lost are.
Not sure what you are trying to get at but those parables speak of God being a god of second chances and how much He loves us all even though we are flawed like Jonah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Why is it that fundamentalist christians then vote for congressmen and Senators who believe climate warming is a hoax? Fundamentalists are selfish and want their own economic situation to be great even if it means destroying the planet for their progeny.
In the words of probably one of your heroes, "what difference does it make"? The whole climate change business has a foul stench of corruption underneath the surface. If it is real then we're screwed aready. No amount of legislation is going to drastically reverse the effects. Why has it become a topic tied to politics in the first place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
America was once a great nation--but "bible believing" christians have always been a thorn in its side. People actually killed one another in Philadelphia over which Bible was to be taught in schools--Protestant or Catholic
The Philadelphia Bible Riots
Never say that Bible reading or prayer in school is not divisive. It has been, it would be, and it will be if your ilk get their way.
You plunk one isolated event out of history and brand ible believing christians as thorns in society? You know, I could do the exact same thing with any group, any demographic, any race, any culture and find an isolate event that would bring shame to that group. It doesn't prove anything. Here's a recent example of just how much of a thorn to society we are:
Quote:
In the 4+ weeks that Southern Baptist Disaster Relief has been active in Harvey response, we have made over 1,300 gospel presentations, approaching 275,000 total work hours, over 1,500,000 total meals prepared, provided for over 22,000 showers, over 14,000 loads of laundry and given out 27 teddy bears. We have opened a warehouse on the West side of Houston this week to receive recovery and rebuild supplies. Well over 30,000 volunteer days have been served with various units across South and Southeast Texas.
And see how history repeats itself!! Once again we have the religious right calling for a ban on immigration, cheering for a useless "wall," and demonizing what are primarily people looking for work when the come to America--whether legally or illegally.
A line has to be drawn somewhere. Our country is broke. To pretend that we can offer a blank check and provide for the needs of any immigrant only creates a massive debt problem for EVERYONE in the future generation. Not to mention the flow of drugs and dangerous gang members over the border. But typical. You have to turn a blind eye to whatever reality doesn't fit your narrative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
All your comments show extreme ignorance about the Bible and have resulted in FALSE beliefs about it.
And I was born in Alabama and had a considerable time in my youth living there and in Georgia, Mississippi, and Louisiana. My own family was subtly racist. The Bible, too frequently in the South, is a weapon used to disenfranchise other people. I just watched part of a film about a woman who was a pastor at a good sized church in Mississippi and made the mistake of "confessing" she was a lesbian to two close "friends" in her church:
So just because your family was racist doesn't mean everyone is. In fact, many Christians in the South supported and helped the civil rights movement. Galatians 3:28 is a verse that clearly teaches equality for all.
Making life hell for people simply isn't biblical. So you don't believe the Bible--you believe in your own prejudice.
Transponder is quite correct. Religion for the fundamentalist is about POWER not being a Servant of God.
I don't believe in making anyone's life hell or difficult, but I don't believe in taking the other extreme which you do in embracing sin. God's Word never changes. Homosexuality will always be a sin, no matter how many tv shows tell me that it is a cool, hip great new societal norm.
Yes I am.
I did not post one single lie...care to show where you think I lied?
We've been over this already...go back and read my response to it.
Well today just passed...do you know of any grand adaptions that were made today? I suggest you look up overpopulation and carrying capacity...we've already reached an unsustainable world population.
This is the lie right here. People are born with morality...people of all walks of life build their foundation and should choose the path that works for them. Foundations are made via many teachers...not just the one you think it should be.
It's also just as simple to be a conscientious self aware human and embarking upon the path that helps you develop your higher self without the need to worship anyone or anything. Yes it's really that simple.
I have been the one who carved out the life that I have right now. I controlled that destiny and I will continue to control my destiny in this lifetime.
Sure things happen that can pull you off course but when that occurs I just pick myself up, dust myself off and keep on truckin. I was wiser and more evolved them most when I was younger, I knew that it was a destiny changer to make a permanent life mistake...sure we all make mistakes, but some mistakes are a life sentence (and I am not talking about prison)...I knew at a young age I did not want to do anything that would give me a life sentence. I value personal freedom and that was my motivator...be free from as many attachments as I could. Attachments are not just physical...they are also mental.
Yep and every time I experience a tail event I always come out on top. That's because I shape these outcomes...yep controlling my destiny in this lifetime.
I would love to see this post because I am pretty sure I have never made such a comment.
I knew it!
No need to lecture me on this...I am eons beyond this type of mentality.
Yep this is what I have been posting for years. Do whatever it takes to keep your mind body and soul in balance.
LOL I don't go around posting about how I look...so get off of that soap box already.
I can't relate to this one bit. I have never lost my moral integrity over a powerful image. LOL You must have a very weak moral compass to make such a claim.
Very thankful to see that fundamentalism is fading in the US.
I might be jumping to conclusions, but the format in which I choose to respond probably irritates you. I will be honest when I say that it looks like it's a lot of work to formulate that type of response. It's well beyond the capacity of my forum energy expenditures allotted for any set time period. I will give you respect though for such a detailed response.
Where to start.
Okay, you said I was making things up when I said that people were capable of many cruel things. I shouldn't have called you a liar since it's rude and it's a strong proclamation, but surely you cannot be ignorant to what has happened in human history.
Although, I do not have a reference, but virtue of existence, I believe we have not yet reached our ecological tipping point; however, I do think we are on the road to biological annihilation at our current rate of "progression."
That doesn't mean that we couldn't dedicate resources to a more sustainable society. For example, a simple thing we could do is to replace corn crops with hemp crops. Clothing and other items could be made out of the stem, and the seeds could be given to livestock and humans. There are many other uses too, that I have not mentioned, that I am sure you are aware of.
It's just that if people agree to go in that direction, it will take a tremendous amount of discipline. You will have to destroy greed. Now, I am not familiar with the the text of any other religion other than Christianity, but I know that greed is not possible if one follows the words of Christ, so what better system for foundational development is there than that set of rules?
Is there anything in particular that Jesus said that you find to be offensive? For frame of reference, I use the Gideon's version. You know, the little ones they hand out at certain places where people tend to gather.
I just don't understand why after you read those words, even if you just read Matthew, how you can come back and say that you think it would be a horrible thing if everyone abided by those words and actually respected one another. Wouldn't be any poverty.
But, if you haven't told others about how you looked than, why does your front page look like the Matadora fan club? I mean, you really think you would get that type of attention if they didn't know what you looked like?
I bet you right now you are thinking about not responding because I didn't respond to you point for point text for text. I might miss out on some things, but I covered what I feel like I had to cover to express my point.
Yeah, I still have weakness. Images are real powerful, especially if we can play them in our head, you know, like in a loop. I've done some dumb things because I got caught up with females, but I've also done some smart things like, not going through with that dumb thing, so while I do have initial weakness, I finish strong.
That's the thing too, if all a girl has to offer is looks, it's like, but what else you got? I mean, I'm not greedy, but at the end of the day, the what else you got is the most important part.
Glad to know you reject the ten commandments. Jesus only discounted the first four--and those by omission. Let's see if you can find where, o master of Scripture.
Fulfilling the LAW was done by making it HARDER in some cases so fundamentalists could know they were as guilty as us plain old "sinners," and there was outright reversal of other OT LAW.. See the Bible lesson in post #260
Salvation comes from God and will be given to whoever He desires. There are plenty of believers who have verses that suggest God will forgive EVERYONE, regardless of belief. And whatever you and I may think there is not enough Scriptural evidence for either view.
But try reading the book of Jonah (a man who didn't want to preach salvation to the Ninevites and whom God had said would perish). After Jonah preached they all repented--God repented of His thought to destroy them. The only person who didn't repent was fundamentalist Jonah.
Compare Jonah then with the story of the prodigal son who was NOT faithful, but still acceptable, and the jealousy of his brother who felt he, himself, was "fundamentally" --- better. And compare it to the parable of the 99 sheep and the one which was lost. No shepherd in his right mind would have left the "safe" sheep alone to look for one that was lost---but that is the message of Jesus as to how important the lost are.
Why is it that fundamentalist christians then vote for congressmen and Senators who believe climate warming is a hoax? Fundamentalists are selfish and want their own economic situation to be great even if it means destroying the planet for their progeny.
America was once a great nation--but "bible believing" christians have always been a thorn in its side. People actually killed one another in Philadelphia over which Bible was to be taught in schools--Protestant or Catholic. The Philadelphia Bible Riots
Never say that Bible reading or prayer in school is not divisive. It has been, it would be, and it will be if your ilk get their way.
And see how history repeats itself!! Once again we have the religious right calling for a ban on immigration, cheering for a useless "wall," and demonizing what are primarily people looking for work when the come to America--whether legally or illegally.
All your comments show extreme ignorance about the Bible and have resulted in FALSE beliefs about it.
And I was born in Alabama and had a considerable time in my youth living there and in Georgia, Mississippi, and Louisiana. My own family was subtly racist. The Bible, too frequently in the South, is a weapon used to disenfranchise other people. I just watched part of a film about a woman who was a pastor at a good sized church in Mississippi and made the mistake of "confessing" she was a lesbian to two close "friends" in her church:
The American religious landscape is undergoing a dramatic transformation. White Christians, once the dominant religious group in the U.S., now account for fewer than half of all adults living in the country.
Okay, you said I was making things up when I said that people were capable of many cruel things.
I never said any such thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster
That doesn't mean that we couldn't dedicate resources to a more sustainable society. For example, a simple thing we could do is to replace corn crops with hemp crops. Clothing and other items could be made out of the stem, and the seeds could be given to livestock and humans. There are many other uses too, that I have not mentioned, that I am sure you are aware of.
Amazing that you are only looking at ways to replace one form of consuming with another. The first step is figure out a way to get an handle on overpopulation. Human consumption is what's wrecking the earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster
It's just that if people agree to go in that direction, it will take a tremendous amount of discipline. You will have to destroy greed.
You have much to learn. It's people simply existing that is wreaking havoc on earth. Simple daily human existence is the culprit.
Now, I am not familiar with the the text of any other religion other than Christianity, but I know that greed is not possible if one follows the words of Christ, so what better system for foundational development is there than that set of rules?
Intelligence for starts. Honest self-reflection, introspection, discipline to achieve a balanced mind body and spirit. There are many paths to achieving this...vs. your "there's only one way to go about personal growth and development". If you don't possess the ability to figure out your own path then you probably need a set of rules to follow. I can't image living life that way. Talk about a Life Sentence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster
I just don't understand why after you read those words, even if you just read Matthew, how you can come back and say that you think it would be a horrible thing if everyone abided by those words and actually respected one another. Wouldn't be any poverty.
What you don't understand is human nature. There will ALWAYS be poverty. There will always be 20% of the population that does not want to lift a finger to do anything to help themselves even if they are willing and able.
What you also don't understand is people don't have to follow your "there's only one way to go about personal growth and development" mentality in order to exist as their higher self.
A
Lying about military service will hang on your neck so long as you continue in the very farse youve created.
Prove I am lying or shut up. I served almost four years with a three month early out. The only other christian I knew in the unit next to mine, used to come to my tent and we would study Scripture and pray. There was a rocket and artillery attack on the base at Dong Ha on May 10, 1967. My son holds a piece of "shrapnel" (base of an artillery round) that I picked up after that attack that weighs almost fifteen pounds. It would have killed someone by simply falling on their head after blowing up into the air.
If I had been a "liar" like you, I would have made up a story about being in a grunt unit and lots of firefights. I was never in a firefight. I ran perimeter patrols. Our base got hit with some rocket, mortar, and artillery fire. The closest any came to me was maybe fifty yards away and I was in a trench.
You personally charge me with "lying" because you got your clock cleaned on the other thread. Now if you want to discuss the topic--go for it. I'll clean it for you again because you can't give a straight answer to the question on the other thread:
WHAT VERSE OF SCRIPTURE STATES THAT THE BIBLE MUST BE ACCEPTED AS YOU BELIEVE IT IN ORDER FOR A PERSON TO BE SAVED?
And tell everyone on THIS thread how you KNOW I am lying about my Vietnam service? God whisper it in your ear like you think He did with the Bible?
I can PROVE you don't know the Bible, anytime you wish to argue about its legitimacy from your point of view, just start a thread. It is legitimate---but not even close to what you claim because the legitimacy lies in faithful questioning not unquestioning obedience.
From post 221 on the Christianity thread--The Christianity Forum:
Quote:
He has no integrity or credibility and should not be speaking for another.
There is no justification in what he said about another (Vietnam) veteran.
And Pinacled cannot claim that his heart was in the right place?
It's a known pattern of condemnation used by the Fundamentalist(s).
(BTW- it is Jerwade, not jeremy but you already knew that ...)
Jerwade
Last edited by Wardendresden; 09-28-2017 at 05:03 PM..
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I was wiser and more evolved them most when I was younger, I knew that it was a destiny changer to make a permanent life mistake...sure we all make mistakes, but some mistakes are a life sentence (and I am not talking about prison)...I knew at a young age I did not want to do anything that would give me a life sentence. I value personal freedom and that was my motivator...be free from as many attachments as I could. Attachments are not just physical...they are also mental. 
The first step is figure out a way to get an handle on overpopulation. Human consumption is what's wrecking the earth.
