Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This happened earlier today. Probably about 3 1/2 hours ago. First, let me explain my situation before I tell you what happened. My dad passed away in the first week of July last year. My mom has a boyfriend, who I knew about before the death. As a matter of fact, he's "family", but it would take to long to explain it, so I'll leave that alone. Just know it isn't incest or anything like that nor is he a cousin or something.
My mom is a Christian, although she isn't what you'd call a fundamentalist. She has known that I do not believe in the Christian God (She didn't know I was an atheist. Just that I didn't believe in the God of the Bible.). She always thought I was a Buddhist because I quote the Buddha a lot and people who are ignorant of the religion think Buddha is considered a God or creator. Mike (her boyfriend) is a fundamentalist Christian.
Anyway, I was in my room just checking my yahoo inbox. All of a sudden, my little sister (11) comes in the room. She asks me, "What year did Buddha die?'. I told her the year. I thought that was weird because even though my mom thought I was a Buddhist, she never asked about Buddhism or anything. Within a few minutes, she came back and asked me to go to Mom and Mike's room.
Basically, they started asking me a whole bunch of questions about Buddhism. They thought Buddha was worshipped as a God, so I had to correct them on that. I mentioned that even though I know a lot about the religion, I am not a Buddhist. I shouldn't have said it because I knew what question would come after that.
"Then what do you believe in?"
I just replied with, "Honestly, I don't believe in a God or a creator." By the look on Mike's face, I was convinced that I had grown two more heads. You know what happens next. "How was the earth created then?" I pointed out the problem with his question. He asked how was it "created". Anybody who knows a lot about physics and astrophysics/cosmology would know that the universe does not need a creator to exist. The first law of thermodynamics alone makes creation unnecessary. Anyway, he continued to ask the same question, without taking the word create out. I just answered with "We are here due to natural processes and no outside force had anything to do with it." After this, it basically turned into a science bashing party.
"Nothing in science is true."
"Scientists have no evidence for anything and just make up theories."
"Science is bull$#@!."
I simply replied saying that if all that he said is true, then his doctors are not reliable (He has a lot of them because he has a lot of health problems.). Also, forensic science is crap and can't be used to ID people. He basically acted like he didn't hear what I said and moved to the next topic. He said that evidence we were created is in the Bible (note the word evidence). I pointed out I could just as easily find a Hindu (there are many of them where I live) who would say their story of creation is true. He then basically said that every creation story other than the one in the Old Testament is false. I asked him to provide evidence of his claims. He just offered to open up the Bible and read it. I said no thanks and that his "evidence" was the same as any religion that believes in some sort of creation story and has scriptures that describe it. He basically went on for about 10 minutes still saying the Bible is evidence of itself (Am I the only one who sees a problem with that?). He asked me if I have read it. I said I have and that I am disturbed by many of the stories. I pointed out the one about killing homosexuals. He essentially said that their actions were justified. He then used the stereotype that all gay people do is have sex to back up his argument that they are "sinners". That was followed by him saying that every gay person in the world will get AIDS and die (I was kind of pissed at that. My uncle died from AIDS and he was straight.). I pointed out that not all gay relationships are based on sex. Once again, he acted like he didn't hear me. Next, he asked me if I support gay rights. I said I do. He said that I am a hypocrite because I support their rights, but I would never have any form of relationship with another man. I can't stand it when people use faulty logic like this. I am not gay nor am I attracted to men at all, but I support gay rights. That is not hypocritical. That is caring about their liberty. I pointed out that I don't smoke and never would, but I don't say he shouldn't be allowed to smoke (he smokes a lot) and that I support legalizing prostitution although I would never touch a prostitute because that's not me. He was basically saying if you wouldn't do what they do, you are against them, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. That isn't hypocritical at all. I see no reason for government to get involved with who people marry or have sex with anyway. It's kind of ridiculous if you ask me. He basically ignored my points and went back to calling me a hypocrite. In my head I found it funny, but my facial expression didn't change the whole time. I find if funny how people will stick to their beliefs so much, they'll ignore valid points. I clearly pointed out that I was no hypocrite, yet, he fooled himself into still thinking I was. He went back to saying the Bible is evidence of creation. At this point, I was really annoyed, so I didn't care about offending anyone. I said, "To me, the Bible is nothing but a fairy tale, so using it as your 'evidence' gets you nowhere." He was silent for a few seconds. Next, he insisted that I was never a real Christian because "you never lose faith". I told him he was wrong. Instead of sticking to his original statement, he said the complete opposite. "You believe in God still, but you're following some scientists or philosophers. It's a phase." I found this funny too, but I didn't say so. I told him he was wrong again. At that point, he said one of the dumbest things I have ever heard, and I've listened to speeches by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Ray Nagin (Embarrassments to my race by the way.). "Anybody who goes against God will lose their mind and go crazy." I heard him perfectly the first time, but I wanted to ask him again to make sure it wasn't a delusion. You don't hear a lot of things like that in real life after all. All I had to do was point out many atheists who are living normal, happy lives, including Richard Dawkins, George Clooney, Bill Gates, Angelina Jolie, etc. He then went back to a previous argument asking why am I following others. That wasn't even the original topic. It was about atheists living happy lives. I simply stated that I didn't choose to be an atheist because I was following somebody and that he was completely ignoring the topic that he himself brought up. There was about 15 minutes more of back and forth. I wasn't into it like he was because it was clear anything I said would be ignored while the Bible gets 'evidence' status. In the end, he once again insisted that I really did believe. At this point, I wanted to laugh, but I never do in situations like this. He said he'd be willing to bet that I couldn't pass a lie detector test on whether or not I believed. I told him I'd bet my own life on it. At that point, mom interrupted and stopped the whole thing.
I thought it was funny the whole time that he was telling me to defend my position, but he was the one who called me out. I can't stand it when people do that. If you're going to call someone out on their position on something, tell them why your position is better. There was more to it, but I covered all the important parts. It's hard being the minority of the minority. There aren't many black atheists out there and I've never met any myself. I'm proud of my race, but sometimes, just sometimes, I wish I could have it as easy as whites do. There are many white atheists, so a lot of the time, it doesn't even come as a surprise and isn't a big issue. Oh, well. Soon I'll be moved out. Just waiting for the 18th birthday.
Ugh, i hear ya. I had a very similar experience with my grandmother but at least it was over the phone which somewhat diminished the overall pain of it.
Wow, that must have been a very strange experience. It sounds like you handled it very well though. I must say I'm very surprised at how young you are. Your posts are very intelligent and thoughtful. My Mother is also religious but I'm so glad that she's never tried to force her opinions on me. She has an open minded attitude and is very tolerant of differenting opinions. It's going to be pretty unpleasant if this boyfriend ends up being your stepfather. Good luck to you.
Ugh, i hear ya. I had a very similar experience with my grandmother but at least it was over the phone which somewhat diminished the overall pain of it.
Well, I wasn't really getting mad over it. I was just annoyed, so at a point, I just told myself let him say whatever and when he stops give him a 5-second rebuttle. Then go back to being quiet. It didn't escalate into an actual argument or anything though. More of a one-sided debate.
I'm also surprise at how young you are, I thought you were older. And I am truly sorry you had this bad experience. I don't want to sound judgmental but as a Christian, this man doesn't really doesn't like a Christian to me.
Wow, that must have been a very strange experience. It sounds like you handled it very well though. I must say I'm very surprised at how young you are. Your posts are very intelligent and thoughtful. My Mother is also religious but I'm so glad that she's never tried to force her opinions on me. She has an open minded attitude and is very tolerant of differenting opinions. It's going to be pretty unpleasant if this boyfriend ends up being your stepfather. Good luck to you.
Thanks. He isn't a bad person at all though. He's just a fundamentalist. When religion isn't the topic, he's one of the coolest people I've ever met. We've never had a debate like that before. We get along perfectly and have never argued or fought. Unfortunately, fundamentalist Christianity can at any time turn that never into a dozen times. I don't take things like that personally though. It will probably get worse when I'm out on my own. Well, probably not until I start to travel. I'm moving to California, and they are pretty tolerant in most areas.
Well, I wasn't really getting mad over it. I was just annoyed, so at a point, I just told myself let him say whatever and when he stops give him a 5-second rebuttle. Then go back to being quiet. It didn't escalate into an actual argument or anything though. More of a one-sided debate.
I felt rather bitter with my experience, not because i felt like i would have more luck trying to explain my views to a wall, but because from then on i got the impression that her "unconditional" love actually depended on my belief in Christ
I felt rather bitter with my experience, not because i felt like i would have more luck trying to explain my views to a wall, but because from then on i got the impression that her "unconditional" love actually depended on my belief in Christ
That is very sad. I would say that is worse than what happened with me. Limiting your love for someone because they don't believe is just pointless. "Holding" your love for someone just because they don't do what you want is one of the most ridiculous things that can be done in this world.
Hey Haaziq, I too am surprised how young you are and am sorry you had to go through that. I have never met a white or black athiest, and I am sure you all do not have an easy time. I don't know why it is so difficult to just respect someones belief, even if it does not coincide with their own.
Here's the problem as I see it. You obviously seem to respect this man as you have made some rather nice comments about him. You said he was a pretty cool guy and that you'd never had an argument like that before. However, the one thing I noticed was his seeming persistence in trying to convince you that what you understood to be the truth was incorrect. I laud you for behaving as you did because I'm not sure I would have actually done the same. To me, he took advantage of the "rank" he held in order to try and convince you of something you had no interest in. That, to me, is a fundamental problem with fundamentalists. They use their "position" in your life to try and impart their "wonderful" belief system on to you. Deny it and the face of the game changes.
How would I have responded to him? I'd have responded just as equally but with perhaps a little less tactfulness. I would have said something to the effect of this:
"How about you Mike? Do you REALLY believe in all of this hocus pocus hogwash that the Bible presents to us? Do you REALLY believe an invisible sky wizard created Adam and Eve? Do you REALLY believe that Noah built a wooden ark at the outrageous age of 450 and then sailed it around the earth (with all of the animals) while God flooded the Earth? Do you REALLY believe that there was a man named Jesus who was born of a virgin? In fact, do you know how many "saviors" have allegedly been born of virgins? Do you REALLY believe that there is something watching and interfering in your life? Do you REALLY believe that this God cares about you, cares about me, cares what you do to yourself, cares what you do to your children's genitalia when they are kids, cares about whether you wear white shoes after a certain day, or cares whether you wear a condom? Do you REALLY believe that this God had an apparent bi-polar, manic, episode in which he went from cruel, sadistic monster (OT) to loving, caring God because he somehow had a son who just so happened to be himself in human form? Do you REALLY believe that when Abraham was taking "the long walk" with his son Isaac that he was REALLY hearing a voice of God?
That's just the Biblical irrationality that I see in a very small, quick format. It doesn't even have anything to do with a "master force" but rather the Christian God and I'm already feeling the illogical nature behind it. Want a good article to read? Perhaps you should read it to him. Nothing like a little Christopher Hitchen's to get a believer riled up.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
