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What I am saying is this .... why the atheists in general point out to the wolves in the sheep's clothing when it comes to faith, and then go ahead and dismiss the ENTIRE doctrine of religion and ALL it's followers?
Why not do the same with the profession of medicine or engineering or law enforcement or atheism?
Oh, we do. Go to the education sub-forum. You'll see plenty of finger pointing. Same with medicine and law enforcement.
Then the next time an atheist fundie starts to tell me God is immoral we will point out that their opinion on the matter is just that--their opinion. It has no bearing on reality, since morality is just an opinion.
Morality is not just an individual's opinion -- yours or mine. It is society's corporate "opinion" or more accurately judgment.
Morality is not perfect but it has tremendous utility and a huge bearing on reality as it gets used every day -- no matter how you wish to disparage it.
In any case what bearing on reality does the morality of, e.g., Baptist congregations of Alabama have, backing their pedophile for Senate? You can't tell me that your morality is anchored to anything since it can come up with basically any position it wishes to on virtually any topic.
Morality is not just an individual's opinion -- yours or mine. It is society's corporate "opinion" or more accurately judgment.
Morality is not perfect but it has tremendous utility and a huge bearing on reality as it gets used every day -- no matter how you wish to disparage it.
In any case what bearing on reality does the morality of, e.g., Baptist congregations of Alabama have, backing their pedophile for Senate? You can't tell me that your morality is anchored to anything since it can come up with basically any position it wishes to on virtually any topic.
Here I don't quite agree with you. One definition of morality is: "a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society."
Morality is not just an individual's opinion -- yours or mine. It is society's corporate "opinion" or more accurately judgment.
Morality is not perfect but it has tremendous utility and a huge bearing on reality as it gets used every day -- no matter how you wish to disparage it.
In any case what bearing on reality does the morality of, e.g., Baptist congregations of Alabama have, backing their pedophile for Senate? You can't tell me that your morality is anchored to anything since it can come up with basically any position it wishes to on virtually any topic.
pedophiles are everywhere, and if one was running against a theist, I am quite sure what you would be doing. the evidence for said claim, a singular moral person looking for a group head nod for anti-religion socialist votes. And that's the problem with a statement of belief about a god based voters. they vote based on a belief statement about god. if you have a god, vote no, if you don't, vote yes. don't worry about all that other crapola.
In any case what bearing on reality does the morality of, e.g., Baptist congregations of Alabama have, backing their pedophile for Senate? You can't tell me that your morality is anchored to anything since it can come up with basically any position it wishes to on virtually any topic.
I have no clue what the truth is that the Baptist congregations of Alabama have, backing their candidate for Senate. What I do know a lot about is the psychological condition known as pedophilia. There is no cure and pedophiles never stop. So there should be current evidence of his proclivities in the intervening 30 years. The absence suggests a sexual interest in sexually developed teenagers which is predatory behavior for older men but very different from pedophilia. Pedophiles are NOT attracted to post-puberty children. Thirty-year-olds dating teenagers are gross, immature, and way more than sexually predatory, but it is not pedophilia. The fact that we do NOT have any ability to know the truth of the allegations makes moral judgments problematic. We can form opinions based on who we believe, but that is hardly a basis for condemning entire congregations for believing someone they have known publicly for 40+ years or more. just saying.
Here I don't quite agree with you. One definition of morality is: "a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society."
I do very much agree with your last paragraph.
Yes each individual has their own moral views, but they have to choose a society with its own mores to live within and must substantially honor those standards. When the individual disagrees then they have the option to work to change society's views. But morality remains primarily a societal phenomenon because it has to do with coexisting and/or cooperating with others. Morality isn't needed until 2 or more people have to coexist or cooperate in some way.
Yes each individual has their own moral views, but they have to choose a society with its own mores to live within and must substantially honor those standards. When the individual disagrees then they have the option to work to change society's views. But morality remains primarily a societal phenomenon because it has to do with coexisting and/or cooperating with others. Morality isn't needed until 2 or more people have to coexist or cooperate in some way.
Most people in the world don't get to choose the society they live in.
I have no clue what the truth is that the Baptist congregations of Alabama have, backing their candidate for Senate. What I do know a lot about is the psychological condition known as pedophilia. There is no cure and pedophiles never stop. So there should be current evidence of his proclivities in the intervening 30 years. The absence suggests a sexual interest in sexually developed teenagers which is predatory behavior for older men but very different from pedophilia. Pedophiles are NOT attracted to post-puberty children. Thirty-year-olds dating teenagers are gross, immature, and way more than sexually predatory, but it is not pedophilia. The fact that we do NOT have any ability to know the truth of the allegations makes moral judgments problematic. We can form opinions based on who we believe, but that is hardly a basis for condemning entire congregations for believing someone they have known publicly for 40+ years or more. just saying.
Well whether your definition of "child" is a minor (under 18) or someone under the age of marital consent (16 in Alabama), some of the accusers are under 16. There is corroborating evidence including the fact that Moore, according to now-retired law enforcement officers, was informally barred from the YMCA and from at least one mall because of his penchant of trolling for young girls. At least one of his accusers accuses him of outright rape. And then there's the fact that Moore has been fired from his position as Chief Justice of Alabama's supreme court, not once, but twice, for his disobedience to the law -- by his own party.
My disgust with Baptist Alabamans is their hypocrisy and double standard. They cast this as a battle between good and evil (which in today's world, is represented to them by conservative and liberal). The evil in this to them is not outlawing abortion, homosexuality and the like. They do not want to kill the unborn, but are unconcerned about molesting the born. There's basically no possible way to justify their rejection of credible testimony of these women simply because the consequences of the public shame and disgrace that should go to a sexual predator means that a Hated Other will occupy their Senate seat. That is the penalty they SHOULD pay for tolerating this lawless fool in their midst for so long.
Tolerating mountebanks like Moore is also an outgrowth of so-called "purity culture" long cultivated in Southern religious circles. It's common practice for older men to marry much younger women in that patriarchal world. When it's common for men in their late 20s, early 30s to court girls up to 15 years younger than themselves it's easier to ignore when lines are crossed and norms stretched.
This kind of thing is simply extending religious faith (belief without any examination of evidence) to the public sphere. It is a signal example of why religious faith is so dangerous and toxic to public life. And it belies the notion that the religious have a superior morality.
Most people in the world don't get to choose the society they live in.
I didn't suggest that they do. But they will be sanctioned by whatever society they are in if they don't abide by its morality. To the extent they disagree with societal morality, they work to change it. Or they become to some greater or lesser degree hermits, and avoid contact with situations that involve moral decisions.
A society of one has no need for morals; there's no one to harm (or benefit) and so there are no judgments about harms or benefits. Societies and sub-societies hammer out agreements so people can get along. These agreements are morals.
I didn't suggest that they do. But they will be sanctioned by whatever society they are in if they don't abide by its morality. To the extent they disagree with societal morality, they work to change it. Or they become to some greater or lesser degree hermits, and avoid contact with situations that involve moral decisions.
A society of one has no need for morals; there's no one to harm (or benefit) and so there are no judgments about harms or benefits. Societies and sub-societies hammer out agreements so people can get along. These agreements are morals.
An individual's morality certainly is important, or you could be dead.
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