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Harry, face the truth. The atheist-leaflet is the only thing you guys even know or care about in regards to the Bible. And as you slowly descend down and down further, in your boat of skepticism, into your whirlpool of confusion, the leaflet is not going to be a good paddle.
Atheists (at least the kind who post here) often know the Bible better than Christians. In any case, I could produce a 2 -page atheist pamphlet of my own that would screw the Gospels up totally.
Front cover -the transfiguration (John has never heard of it) , the rejection at Nazareth. (Luke's invented attempted assassination)
p 2 the nativities (total contradiction). P 3 the death of Judas (prophetic dogs' dinner and impossibility), Matthew's 2 donkeys, and the relocation of the temple -cleansing and the anointing in Luke.
Page 4, the resurrection (total contradiction throughout).
Any slightly below-average IQ religious person with just a minor knowledge of the Bible passages you quote, will understand their context.
Your little atheist-leaflet level of Bible understanding is a joke. And it's all that you have.
Ozzy, you're STILL living in la-la land. You've got this cockeyed idea that all people have to do is understand the reasons why yahweh ordered the slaughter of men, women, children, even sheep, goats, cows. The average person is going to ask "What in the hell did the children and the sheep, goats, and cows do to deserve being slaughtered en masse??????
You think that once people understand YOUR reasons for why yahweh had to slaughter everything standing they're going to say, "Oh! Well, if that's the way the people were behaving, then sure! Yahweh had very good reason to butcher every living thing within spitting distance of Israel. How silly of me not realize that!
Like I said, Ozzy, you're in a fantasy world--totally out of touch with reality.
So how can people tell if Jesus spoke these words of the gospel or not ? as they were not alive when Jesus walked to earth ................ Still the Words of Jesus or Not God claimed the Words as His and anointed the Words where He quickens these Words for His people to remember and He blesses at believing His promises .................. Like Jesus said (quote) ...Matthew 5:19....``Who so ever will break one of these commandments , and will teach men so, He will be called the least in the kingdom of Heaven , but who so ever will do and teach them , the same will be called great in the kingdom of heaven ``..............
for example.... Matthew 6. 7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this:
“Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.1
10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, 2 on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,3
12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.4
14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Now I won't even consider the rote recitation by people who hardly care what it means. But will observe that this is part of the Sermon on the Mount.
It also appears in Luke.
Luke 11. 1 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father, hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come. 3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”
Now I'm not going to compare the differences, but this is in a totally different context - when Jesus leaves Galilee on the way to Jerusalem. Ok, the smart apologist will say that Jesus was teaching the same prayer at different times. But how can it be that Jesus in Luke is teaching them the prayer for the first time, when he already taught it to them pretty much at the outset of his mission in Matthew? And can we suppose they haven't been reciting it regularly ever since then?
The context makes this impossible. What is more - we don't find it Mark. Bad enough that it isn't in John, but a synoptic gospel that doesn't have the most important prayer in Christianity? How could he not have known it?
What's the explanation? Well it's because material common to Matthew and Luke is from a common source -document that they both used but in different ways. Matthew unloads the whole hoggins at the sermon on the mount. Luke just uses half in his Sermon, and spreads the reast along the road to Peraea - it's all there - but spread like a paper - trail to John's Baptising -place. And the Prayer is the earlier part that Luke uses, but in a different context.
What this means is that these cannot possibly both be reliable records of what Jesus said, and that Mark (never mind John) doesn't have it simply shouts that the imported document of sayings that Matthew and Luke used is also not a reliable record of what Jesus said, but stuff written by early Christians.
Now I'm sure you won't buy a word of that, but at least understand why you are never, ever, going to persuade me that the gospels are a reliable record of what Jesus said.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-23-2019 at 04:37 PM..
You living a pipe dream, Ozzy. I'd say any rational thinking adult looking for spirituality is going to read verses like
and vomit in disgust at yahweh.
Yep, great god you worship, Ozzy. Thank God he's just a mythological pagan god like Thor and Zeus.
The people looking for spirituality aren't going to come to a bloodthirsty perverted god like the god of the Old Testament. They might get hoodwinked into coming to Jesus until they find out that historically-speaking, Jesus didn't say anything recorded in the gospels. It was all invented by anonymous Greek writers a century after Jesus died.
Rashi:
You shall cut off her hand: [This verse is not to be understood literally, but rather, it means:] She must pay monetary damages to recompense the victim for the embarrassment he suffered [through her action. The amount she must pay is calculated by the court,] all according to the [social status] of the culprit and the victim (see B.K. 83b). But perhaps [it means that we must actually cut off] her very hand? [The answer is born out from a transmission handed down to our Rabbis, as follows:] Here, it says לֹא תָחוֹס,“do not have pity,” and later, in the case of conspiring witnesses (Deut. 19:21), the same expression, לֹא תָחוֹס, is used. [And our Rabbis taught that these verses have a contextual connection:] Just as there, in the case of the conspiring witnesses, [the literal expressions in the verse refer to] monetary compensation (see Rashi on that verse), so too, here, [the expression “You must cut off her hand” refers to] monetary compensation. — [Sifrei 25:161]
You shall cut off her hand: [This verse is not to be understood literally, but rather, it means:] She must pay monetary damages to recompense the victim for the embarrassment he suffered [through her action. The amount she must pay is calculated by the court,] all according to the [social status] of the culprit and the victim (see B.K. 83b). But perhaps [it means that we must actually cut off] her very hand? [The answer is born out from a transmission handed down to our Rabbis, as follows:] Here, it says לֹא תָחוֹס,“do not have pity,” and later, in the case of conspiring witnesses (Deut. 19:21), the same expression, לֹא תָחוֹס, is used. [And our Rabbis taught that these verses have a contextual connection:] Just as there, in the case of the conspiring witnesses, [the literal expressions in the verse refer to] monetary compensation (see Rashi on that verse), so too, here, [the expression “You must cut off her hand” refers to] monetary compensation. — [Sifrei 25:161]
Jeez, I'm glad you cleared that up for me, Richard.
Hey, just saying, man...Sometimes Jewish sages know more about a Jewish book than Christians do...
I sometimes wonder whether the Jewish Sages are not so much Explaining as Excusing. I mean; if they really by 'cut of her hand', meant 'Pay compensation', why not say so?
That said, I much prefer to consider the Gospels, and Christianity - not Judaism - is what is the matter than needs attention.
In any case, that the Prophecies of Tyre and Babylon failed, the evidence indicates that the Assyrian army was Not Smit at Jerusalem, and that Daniel was written just before the Maccabean revolt rather than during the exile, not to mention that Exodus really looks unhistorical effectively demolished the OT for me, even without explaining that slaughtering a tribe and taking the virgin girls should be Interpreted as registering the tribe as eligible to vote and providing the kids with free orange - juice. The OT - bits are past saving. Really.
So how can people tell if Jesus spoke these words of the gospel or not ? as they were not alive when Jesus walked to earth ................ Still the Words of Jesus or Not God claimed the Words as His and anointed the Words where He quickens these Words for His people to remember and He blesses at believing His promises .................. Like Jesus said (quote) ...Matthew 5:19....``Who so ever will break one of these commandments , and will teach men so, He will be called the least in the kingdom of Heaven , but who so ever will do and teach them , the same will be called great in the kingdom of heaven ``..............
i kinda stop at died and rose for our sins. Toss in raised the dead and healed the sick (magically) and i have no idea what they are talking about.
now, non literally? it all makes sense. weather we choose to follow or not is personal.
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You've got this cockeyed idea that all people have to do is understand the reasons why yahweh ordered the slaughter of men, women, children, even sheep, goats, cows. The average person is going to ask "What in the hell did the children and the sheep, goats, and cows do to deserve being slaughtered en masse??????
Thank God he's just a mythological pagan god like Thor and Zeus. 
