It’s Time to Stop Giving Christianity a Pass on White Supremacy and Violence (Baptists, protestants)
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No, I don't think we know it for a statistical fact that white Christians are committing "a lot" of the violence in society or how that relates to other categorizations of people. But I think it is safe to say that, given the claims of high moral ground that Christians generally make, white Christians of a certain kind at least do not evidence that morality very well. In the South, it isn't unheard of historically for them to also belong to the KKK or to otherwise make life miserable for minorities in their midst. Differentness is an existential threat to some white people, including some white Christians.
It also depends to a large extent on your definition of violence. If you limit it to actual physical assault resulting in injury you will get a different answer than if you include less overt forms of physical, sexual, mental and emotional abuse and neglect. Is a light slap physical violent? Is catcalling sexual abuse? Is gaslighting and snark mental abuse? Is fat-shaming emotional abuse? Somewhere or other these things cross lines into "abusive" or "violent". We can debate where that line is but I don't think it's limited to some technical line around literal physical abuse of a certain level sufficient for physical damage.
What about the threat of violence? For some people, the distant threat of anger is enough to shut them down with fear, with others, you can beat them up on the regular and they bounce right back, defiant and unmoved.
In large cities people tend to self segregate by race and to a lesser means wealth. This is nothing new. You can't force people to live where they don't want to in 2022.
My church is mostly Latino/Hispanic for what it's worth. This is a well off suburb of San Diego.
Christianity in its pure and accurate sense - as conveyed by Jesus in the Gospels of the Bible - has no room for white supremacy and violence. Jesus came for and welcomed all: all races, all income levels, all ages, all locations of the world. And he was a messenger of peace, who advocated and promoted peace and unity. That's why people of types were, and continue to be, drawn to him.
The distinction instead is religion, and religion and religious groups welcoming those horrible traits of humanity. The same people who have no problem with white supremacy and violence, have no problem with the hypocrisy and 180 degrees approach of their ways in contrast to true Christianity.
We find the same thing in other circles, such as politics. This isn't about accuracy and integrity; it's about hatred and instability. Once crossing over that line, all bets are off.
Quit painting with such an extreme and horrid brush. Do your research and separate where the problems really come from, instead of damning everything, including the good and healthy.
It is true that churches should be calling this out. But we see bogus churches just like bogus politicians (who don't care about justice and equality), bogus law enforcement officers (who are "above" the law), etc. This is flawed humanity across the board. Look for the common aspect, instead of singling out just one group. If you really care about fighting white supremacy and violence, you'll call them out and expose them everywhere they exist.
Among white Americans, there is high (two-thirds) overlap between beliefs in Christian nationalism and replacement theory. And both views are associated with higher support for political violence among whites:
* White Americans who agree that “God intended America to be a promised land for European Christians” are four times as likely as those who disagree with that statement to believe that “true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country” (43% vs. 10%).
* White Americans who believe that “Immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background” are nearly six times as likely as those who disagree with that statement to believe that “true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country” (45% vs. 8%).
While only 29% of Americans agree, for example, that “Immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background,” that number rises to dangerous levels among a range of groups comprising the conservative base in U.S. politics: 67% among those who say they most trust Fox News; 65% among QAnon believers; 60% among Republicans; 50% among white evangelical Protestants, and 43% among white American without a college degree.https://time.com/6179886/christianit...emacy-buffalo/
I am sure that there are White Christians that look up to to the bygone era where the country was much less diverse, much less political correctness, and neighborhoods where they grew up were all white. Yet mourn today with the increase diversity of society, and an increasingly less white and secular America. Sadly, there are certain people that will resort to violence to fight against this. It is a mess and sadly you can't be truly having a Chrisitan life and be racist at the same time.
What would be the most common Religious affiliation among the majority of those immigrants?
I would think the vast majority of them would be Christian.
I believe this will actually result in a percentage gain for Christianity within the U.S.
As per "race"...most of the "Immigrants" are ethnically Hispanic/Latino...but, as per the Government statistics, what "race" would those people be considered?
Why not Google the topic. You'll be flooded with hits.
If I do a Google search for "albino bear," I will be flooded with images of albino bears.
That doesn't mean that based on my google search that albino bears are the majority of bears.
Are there any actual statistics that white Christians commit more violent crimes than other demographics. I am a white Christian and I've never committed a crime let alone a violent one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
You’re for an open border in the US?
I think the US should be open to any non-violent person looking to start a new life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
No, I don't think we know it for a statistical fact that white Christians are committing "a lot" of the violence in society or how that relates to other categorizations of people. But I think it is safe to say that, given the claims of high moral ground that Christians generally make, white Christians of a certain kind at least do not evidence that morality very well. In the South, it isn't unheard of historically for them to also belong to the KKK or to otherwise make life miserable for minorities in their midst. Differentness is an existential threat to some white people, including some white Christians.
It also depends to a large extent on your definition of violence. If you limit it to actual physical assault resulting in injury you will get a different answer than if you include less overt forms of physical, sexual, mental and emotional abuse and neglect. Is a light slap physical violent? Is catcalling sexual abuse? Is gaslighting and snark mental abuse? Is fat-shaming emotional abuse? Somewhere or other these things cross lines into "abusive" or "violent". We can debate where that line is but I don't think it's limited to some technical line around literal physical abuse of a certain level sufficient for physical damage.
What about the threat of violence? For some people, the distant threat of anger is enough to shut them down with fear, with others, you can beat them up on the regular and they bounce right back, defiant and unmoved.
Things like threats of violence are bad, but I'd say violence is worse. Catcalling is bad, but I'd say sexual assault is worse - I've experienced both.
Certainly many Christians have used Christianity in evil ways like the KKK, but I can't help but think that is more the exception.
If I do a Google search for "albino bear," I will be flooded with images of albino bears.
That doesn't mean that based on my google search that albino bears are the majority of bears.
Are there any actual statistics that white Christians commit more violent crimes than other demographics. I am a white Christian and I've never committed a crime let alone a violent one.
I think the US should be open to any non-violent person looking to start a new life.
Things like threats of violence are bad, but I'd say violence is worse. Catcalling is bad, but I'd say sexual assault is worse - I've experienced both.
Certainly many Christians have used Christianity in evil ways like the KKK, but I can't help but think that is more the exception.
1. Where, precisely, did I say anything about "majority"?
2. Googling the topic is only the first step. Then you have to actually read some of the more reputable articles.
3. Probably half the people in the world would love to move to the United States. Do you think that's reasonable?
Christian nationalism is a good thing, and they love the nation is the sight of the living God who built the nation, nationalism is a curse for the hearts of people who hate the nation, and people who use white supremacy is the most racist thing people can believe, which reject MLK and Jesus ideas ........
Christian nationalism is a good thing, and they love the nation is the sight of the living God who built the nation, nationalism is a curse for the hearts of people who hate the nation, and people who use white supremacy is the most racist thing people can believe, which reject MLK and Jesus ideas ........
Last I knew, George Washington and Ben Franklin and others were the founders. And they were Deists.
I think national pride is fine but it can be taken too far, and at the expense of others and of values like pluralism that the founders built upon. I think "too far" includes "my country, right or wrong". Um no, if it's wrong, it's wrong, my country or not.
Like it or not, authoritarian religion does tend to develop and promote us-vs-them rhetoric around various hated others, be they unbelievers, persons who are not white, immigrants, homosexuals, etc. Such people bring scary differences that "don't belong". They threaten the Established Order, which apparently, is exceedingly fragile and insecure.
I've never met someone that believes that. Who are these people? And why are you whining about it here versus the politics forum?
Again. Politics forum really should be talking about this. It has nothing to do with Christianity.
Again. This is not a Christian issue. This is a political issue. Similar to how some black preachers and some politicians use black churches. We can get riled up about it, but this is really a topic for the politics forum.
I see you from your profile is Baptist: Yet here is a testomony of a Baptist white person: My 1815 family Bible gives witness to ancestors from middle Georgia who were Baptist preachers, slave owners, and Confederate soldiers. My family moved from Virginia to Georgia after receiving land grants as a reward for military service in the Revolutionary War. This occurred while the government was forcibly removing Native Americans from Georgia and supporting the growth of white settlements.
Underneath the glossy, self-congratulatory histories that white Christian churches have written about themselves—which typically depict white Christians as exemplars of democratic principles and pillars of the community—is a thinly veiled, deeply troubling past. White Christian churches have not just been complacent or complicit in failing to address racism; rather, as the dominant cultural power in the U.S., they have been responsible for constructing and sustaining a project to protect white supremacy. Through the entire American story, white Christianity has served as the central source of moral legitimacy for a society explicitly built to value the lives of white people over Black people. And this legacy remains present and measurable in the cultural DNA of contemporary white Christianity, not only among evangelicals in the South but also among mainline Protestants in the Midwest and Catholics in the Northeast.https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...kening/614641/
Meanwhile I know that many, many Christians are against same sex marriage, yet at the same time many white Christians are against interracial marriage: An example is: Mississippi couple was denied a wedding venue because the groom was black and the bride was white. The venue's owners claimed the couple’s union went against their “Christian beliefs.”
The so-called “Christian” motivations behind such bigoted opinions are deeply embedded in some conservative Christians circles, which cherry-pick parts of the Bible that fit into their personal mold of God. Often, such Christians identify with the “Religious Right.”
The creation of the Religious Right can be traced back to the late 1960s, when public schools were forced to integrate. In response to mandatory integration, conservative white Christians formed new whites-only private schools. In one particular county, Holmes County in Mississippi, the number of white students enrolled in public schools had dropped to zero in the years following the Brown v. Board of Education ruling.
https://sojo.net/articles/christian-...-still-problem Sure many years ago opposition to interracial relationships may have once been typical behavior among Christians, it still is in some circles to this day. IN a poll where there was a survey on this: 20% of white evangelical Christians in the United States oppose interracial marriage, a rate significantly higher than any other demographic group polled.
1. Where, precisely, did I say anything about "majority"?
2. Googling the topic is only the first step. Then you have to actually read some of the more reputable articles.
3. Probably half the people in the world would love to move to the United States. Do you think that's reasonable?
1. You were responding to me and I had commented that there seems to be no evidence that white Christians commit a disproportionate amount of violence in the US today, in fact the evidence suggests that isn't so.
2. I am sure some white Christians commit crimes as people from all groups do. We shouldn't "sweep it under the rug" but who is giving white Christians a "pass on white supremacy and violence?"
3. There are only so many job opportunities...would they all still come when the job opportunities run out? I don't know.
Are Republicans correct then to discourage it by shutting down the border? I want to help the sojourners and provide them with love and service for we are all God's children.
"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me" - Matthew 25:35
"When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." -Leviticus 19:33-34
"There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you." -Exodus 12:49
1. You were responding to me and I had commented that there seems to be no evidence that white Christians commit a disproportionate amount of violence in the US today, in fact the evidence suggests that isn't so.
2. I am sure some white Christians commit crimes as people from all groups do. We shouldn't "sweep it under the rug" but who is giving white Christians a "pass on white supremacy and violence?"
3. There are only so many job opportunities...would they all still come when the job opportunities run out? I don't know.
Are Republicans correct then to discourage it by shutting down the border? I want to help the sojourners and provide them with love and service for we are all God's children.
"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me" - Matthew 25:35
"When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." -Leviticus 19:33-34
"There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you." -Exodus 12:49
1. I did not talk about majority. But here's the problem, true christian thinking should should be the antithesis of violence, particularly violence toward others, including those of different races, classes, etc. So this violence and hate that does exist in right-wing christianity -- and it's well documented -- is all the more noticeable.
2. Rarely do you hear one christian group reprimand another christian group, even if they know the other group is not following the teachings of Jesus. They tend to look the other way. Pretend it's not happening. Here's a rare case when a minister did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv9O8OoaCqk
3. Many people in other countries around the world have an almost fairy tale perception of America. Living in Thailand, it was not uncommon for me to have Thais ask questions such as, "Do all Americans live in mansions?" Or my favorite -- and this was actually asked of me -- "Is it true the streets in America are really paved in gold?" And people in the third world will see what we have as better than what we have, even if what we have isn't very good. I once shared a duplex in Arlington, Virginia with of friend of mine from Thailand. He had bought the duplex and completely remodeled it. Two bedrooms, one of which was average size for an American bedroom, the other of which very small. And he bought it from a landlord who had rented it out to El Salvadorian immigrants...and 16 of them lived in this duplex. But to them it was far better than what they had in El Salvador.
4. Perhaps should should come to Arizona and begin asking christians how they feel about our border situation. Not everyone thinks the same, of course, but white people who live hear are not unlikely to rant against our open border to the south. Do you think that the typical white person down here is not christian?
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