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Pardon my ignorance, but would not churches that qualify for tax exemption status be in violation of the rules surrounding this exemption should they turn away certain sectors of the public based on discriminatory grounds? Gay marriage is legal according to the law of the land.
Pardon my ignorance, but would not churches that qualify for tax exemption status be in violation of the rules surrounding this exemption should they turn away certain sectors of the public based on discriminatory grounds? Gay marriage is legal according to the law of the land.
Does anyone know?
Churches are in an interesting position with our separation of church and state. Churches are allowed to do what they want for the most part. You could say they're lawless zones. But I don't think that's completely true as obviously the government can get involved in punishing predators and churches that protect them.
I'm not anywhere near a legal expert, so I'm not sure of the fine details. Would be nice to have someone legal weigh in because it is a bit confusing sometimes.
However, I don't think I want to force churches to take in gay couples or do same-sex marriages. Understand I think that discrimination against LGBT people is evil. I think that churches choose to display bigotry and discriminate at their own peril. As society moves on and realizes that there's nothing wrong with being LGBT, the churches will either catch up or their pews will empty.
Like a business, a church is open to the public, as long as the public abides by the rules of the business. No shirt, no shoes, you can't come in at most businesses, or churches. Also if you intend to cause a disruption then you are not welcome. This is distinct from membership rules, which churches and other organizations are free to devise. If you violate the rules of the Elks, Girl Scouts, Presbyterians, etc. you can lose your membership and no longer be welcome.
I really doubt a gay couple would choose to worship at a church where they wouldn't feel welcome these days, when they have so many other options. I was part of the "rabble-rousing" faction in the Episcopal Church in the 80's and 90's, that was promoting same-sex marriage and ordination of out LGBT clergy, when many people didn't feel welcome. But now that has been accomplished and is taken for granted, and I think the Church has moved beyond where even I thought it would go, so that I'm now part of the "Old Guard" and a relic of history.
Even in the rural small town of Raton, New Mexico (pop. 6000) they had their first LGBT Pride Festival last year, and the small Episcopal Church there played a major part in organizing it and having a presence. There are photos of the event showing the two clergy members wearing rainbow colors, marching with a banner saying "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You":
Like a business, a church is open to the public, as long as the public abides by the rules of the business. No shirt, no shoes, you can't come in at most businesses, or churches. Also if you intend to cause a disruption then you are not welcome. This is distinct from membership rules, which churches and other organizations are free to devise. If you violate the rules of the Elks, Girl Scouts, Presbyterians, etc. you can lose your membership and no longer be welcome.
I really doubt a gay couple would choose to worship at a church where they wouldn't feel welcome these days, when they have so many other options. I was part of the "rabble-rousing" faction in the Episcopal Church in the 80's and 90's, that was promoting same-sex marriage and ordination of out LGBT clergy, when many people didn't feel welcome. But now that has been accomplished and is taken for granted, and I think the Church has moved beyond where even I thought it would go, so that I'm now part of the "Old Guard" and a relic of history.
Even in the rural small town of Raton, New Mexico (pop. 6000) they had their first LGBT Pride Festival last year, and the small Episcopal Church there played a major part in organizing it and having a presence. There are photos of the event showing the two clergy members wearing rainbow colors, marching with a banner saying "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You":
Yes, that's a little over the top for a church for me, too. I'm with the gay guys who were regulars at my church who nixed the idea of putting a rainbow on the church sign. "It's not a gay church. It's just a church."
Yes, that's a little over the top for a church for me, too. I'm with the gay guys who were regulars at my church who nixed the idea of putting a rainbow on the church sign. "It's not a gay church. It's just a church."
The "over-the-top" reaction is typical of such movements. The tendency to demand extreme solutions is due to the psychological phenomenon of "cumulative frustration" over very long time periods. The overreaction is called "abreaction" and does not satisfy the frustration that drives it, leading to more extreme expressions. Let's face it, a "pride parade" for your sexual preference is kind of odd, IMO. What is there to be proud of about the way you have sex??? (No need to hit me with all the typical rationalizations of this bizarre practice.)
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The "over-the-top" reaction is typical of such movements. The tendency to demand extreme solutions is due to the psychological phenomenon of "cumulative frustration" over very long time periods. The overreaction is called "abreaction" and does not satisfy the frustration that drives it, leading to more extreme expressions. Let's face it, a "pride parade" for your sexual preference is kind of odd, IMO. What is there to be proud of about the way you have sex??? (No need to hit me with all the typical rationalizations of this bizarre practice.)
I feel similarly when someone is applauded by an audience on TV or other when they announce the birth of a child. As if it's never been done before. How wonderful, they had sex!
Yes, that's a little over the top for a church for me, too. I'm with the gay guys who were regulars at my church who nixed the idea of putting a rainbow on the church sign. "It's not a gay church. It's just a church."
A lot of churches and businesses (in the US and abroad) use a rainbow flag to signal they are welcoming, not that they are all gay. I know some churches that do this who hardly have any gay members, mostly elderly white straight folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The "over-the-top" reaction is typical of such movements. The tendency to demand extreme solutions is due to the psychological phenomenon of "cumulative frustration" over very long time periods. The overreaction is called "abreaction" and does not satisfy the frustration that drives it, leading to more extreme expressions. Let's face it, a "pride parade" for your sexual preference is kind of odd, IMO. What is there to be proud of about the way you have sex??? (No need to hit me with all the typical rationalizations of this bizarre practice.)
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It's not pride in "the way you have sex" (where did you get that idea?) but pride in community, and in the progress that has been fought for and earned.
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