is this the only verse in the bible ? (salvation, soul, Jehovah)

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by elwill

i whom ask this question
dear Munich compared between islam and christianity that in christianity jesus (pbuh) said love your enemy and pray for whom persecute you

whether in quran we are ordered to kill whom fight us , so that i asked this question for him


but to make it clear , muslims never justify the killing of any innocents , and i challenge you to find for me islamic sites justify killing of christians .

All religions, believe in the right to self defense, even Christ sometimes became enraged and fought to defend his ideals, like when he chased the moneymakers out of the temple.

What he meant when he said love thy enemy, is that it is 100% right to defend yourself when there is an enemy invading your homeland and threatening your family, and all what is dear for you, but even if you have to fight to resist this invasion, you shouldn't do it with hate, but rather with the consciousness of.

forgive them God, because they don't know what they are doing!

And also internally praying for them.

Salam!

[mams1559]

To the OP: There are other verses that say Jesus is the only way to heaven...

John 10:7 - Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. ===> Jesus is the gate, not a gate, for his followers to enter heaven.

1 John 5:5 - Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

And read John 3:1-15, because this explains what John 3:16 says in one verse.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

All religions, believe in the right to self defense, even Christ sometimes became enraged and fought to defend his ideals, like when he chased the moneymakers out of the temple.

What he meant when he said love thy enemy, is that it is 100% right to defend yourself when there is an enemy invading your homeland and threatening your family, and all what is dear for you, but even if you have to fight to resist this invasion, you shouldn't do it with hate, but rather with the consciousness of.

it's completely the view of muslims either

forgive them God, because they don't know what they are doing!

And also internally praying for them.

Salam!

Travelling fella , this statement , shocked me
it's the same prayer which mohammed (pbuh) prayed with after his battle in Uhud in The Most Awkward Hour in the Messenger’s Life


‘Utbah bin Abi Waqqas pelted him with stones. One of the stones fell on his face. His lower right incisor Ruba‘iya (i.e. the tooth that is between a canine and a front tooth) was injured. His lower lip was wounded. He was also attacked by ‘Abdullah bin Shihab Az-Zuhri who cleaved his forehead. ‘Abdullah bin Qami’a (Qami’a means ‘a humiliated woman’), who was an obstinate strong horseman, struck him violently on his shoulder with his sword; and that stroke hurt the Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] for over a month — though it was not strong enough to break his two armours. He dealt a heavy blow on his cheek. It was so strong that two rings of his iron-ringed helmet penetrated into his holy cheek. "Take this stroke from me, I am Ibn Qami’a." He said while striking the Messenger with his sword. The Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] replied — while he was wiping the blood flowing on his face: "I implore Allâh to humiliate you."
[Fath Al-Bari 7/373, 366] (i.e. Aqma’aka Allâh).

In Al-Bukhâri it is stated his incisor broke, his head was cleaved, and that he started wiping the blood off it and saying: "(I wonder) how can people who cut the face of their Prophet [pbuh] and break the incisor of his — he who calls them to worship Allâh. How can such people thrive or be successful?" About that incident, Allâh, Glory is to Him, sent down a Qur’ânic verse saying:
"Not for you (O Muhammad [pbuh] but for Allâh) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zâlimûn (polytheists, disobedients, and wrong-doers)." [Al-Qur'an 3:128


At-Tabarani states that the Prophet [pbuh] said: "Allâh’s Wrath is great on those who besmear the face of His Messenger," observed silence for a short while and then resumed saying:

"O Allâh, forgive my people for they have no knowledge."

[Munich]

About the killing of innocents: Well, you are right when you say that Islam prohibits the killing of innocents. The questions is just how Islam defines an innocent person: according to mainstream islamic teachings a non-muslim can never be innocent as they do not follow Allah and Muhammad. Just watch that video:
YouTube - Killing "Infidels" - once you watched this video, remember the quote from the Bible on page 2 when Jesus talks about false prophets. Well, as for me, I just don't like the fruits of Islam.

And btw: This guy here was called Allah (or Al-Ilah) in pre-islamic Arabia. Google it, it's really interesting.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by mams1559

To the OP: There are other verses that say Jesus is the only way to heaven...

John 10:7 - Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. ===> Jesus is the gate, not a gate, for his followers to enter heaven.

thank you for your responding
with my view for this verse , i think that Noah(pbuh) is the gate for his followers also
mosas (pbuh) is the gate for his followers either , the same with jesus and mohammed and each prophet (peace be upon them all) are gates for thier people to the heavin

1 John 5:5 - Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

it depends on your understaning for this expression , we as a muslims believe that this expression in it's original language and in culture of jews in this time means a prophet , we believes that jesus (pbuh) is a prophet

And read John 3:1-15, because this explains what John 3:16 says in one verse.

i read it
the verses talks about who believe in jesus , we believe in jesus and mosas and all prophets

136 - Say ye (muslims): we believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to God (in Islam).

[Towhee]

If you are a muslim why are you quoting from the New Testament? It obviously is not the word of God to you.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by Munich

About the killing of innocents: Well, you are right when you say that Islam prohibits the killing of innocents. The questions is just how Islam defines an innocent person: according to mainstream islamic teachings a non-muslim can never be innocent as they do not follow Allah and Muhammad. Just watch that video:
YouTube - Killing "Infidels" -

i hoped if you find for me somthing from islamic sources , if you wanna to know the truth about any relegion , search on the sources , not to get information from media

anyway , i disagree with him , he distorted our relegion
and you can go to muslims in thier forums to ask them and to be sure from islamic teaching

once you watched this video, remember the quote from the Bible on page 2 when Jesus talks about false prophets. Well, as for me, I just don't like the fruits of Islam.

i agree with you , if this really the fruit of islam
it isn't the fruits of islam

And btw: This guy here was called Allah (or Al-Ilah) in pre-islamic Arabia. Google it, it's really interesting.

i didn't understand this pic you attached , can you to be more specific

Arabic word for God, "ALLAH" as well as the Hebrew "ELOHIM" and Aramaic "ALAAHA" comes from the common Semitic word "EL" (Ancient Canaanite , Elah (also arabic word for God)

To the pagan Arabs, ALLAH is the One True God of Abraham and Ishmael, and the Lord of the Ka`aba. This religion was originally pure monotheism in nature. However, the pagan Arabs tainted this simple monotheistic religion of worshipping Allâh alone by resorting to worship of idols as intercessors to worship Him. They would stand by an idol and, using it as an intercessor, worship Allâh. so Allah wasnt an idol from thier Idoles





Alaah is the same God of abraham an Mosas and jesus (pbut)

[elwill]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

If you are a muslim why are you quoting from the New Testament? It obviously is not the word of God to you.

because i'm talking with christians


the bible isn't the word of God to me as you said , but i believe that although of the corruption and distortion of it , it's still have some of the truth within it

anyway , i think that if you wanna to depate with other relgion , you debate with them from thier sources
beside if anyone wanna to condemn my relegion , he must debate me from my sources either

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by elwill

it's completely the view of muslims either
Travelling fella , this statement , shocked me
it's the same prayer which mohammed (pbuh) prayed with after his battle in Uhud in The Most Awkward Hour in the Messenger’s Life


‘Utbah bin Abi Waqqas pelted him with stones. One of the stones fell on his face. His lower right incisor Ruba‘iya (i.e. the tooth that is between a canine and a front tooth) was injured. His lower lip was wounded. He was also attacked by ‘Abdullah bin Shihab Az-Zuhri who cleaved his forehead. ‘Abdullah bin Qami’a (Qami’a means ‘a humiliated woman’), who was an obstinate strong horseman, struck him violently on his shoulder with his sword; and that stroke hurt the Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] for over a month — though it was not strong enough to break his two armours. He dealt a heavy blow on his cheek. It was so strong that two rings of his iron-ringed helmet penetrated into his holy cheek. "Take this stroke from me, I am Ibn Qami’a." He said while striking the Messenger with his sword. The Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] replied — while he was wiping the blood flowing on his face: "I implore Allâh to humiliate you."
[Fath Al-Bari 7/373, 366] (i.e. Aqma’aka Allâh).

In Al-Bukhâri it is stated his incisor broke, his head was cleaved, and that he started wiping the blood off it and saying: "(I wonder) how can people who cut the face of their Prophet [pbuh] and break the incisor of his — he who calls them to worship Allâh. How can such people thrive or be successful?" About that incident, Allâh, Glory is to Him, sent down a Qur’ânic verse saying:
"Not for you (O Muhammad [pbuh] but for Allâh) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zâlimûn (polytheists, disobedients, and wrong-doers)." [Al-Qur'an 3:128


At-Tabarani states that the Prophet [pbuh] said: "Allâh’s Wrath is great on those who besmear the face of His Messenger," observed silence for a short while and then resumed saying:

"O Allâh, forgive my people for they have no knowledge."

Thanks for sharing this friend, the more I know about Muhammad (pbuh) the more I bow to him as I bow to all the true saints and prophets from all religions.

I find it interesting how, many people think that muslims are the radicals, fanaticals and terrorists, and yet you are giving an example of tolerance and acceptance, that many people from other religions lack, the image of the creator in you is strongly felt.

Even though our faiths are different, we've never argued on whether we love and seek the same God or not, and when we've had dialogues to exchange our beliefs and traditions, we do it with an open mind and find it enlightening to discover how it is the same God we worship after all, instead of believe that our faiths are the only way.

Something that I found very interesting is that for Hindus, who lived on the time of Jesus, he was known as Isa, that was the name they gave to him during the time he spent training himself with spiritual masters in India and south east asia for his mission, this is the same name that muslims use for Jesus isn't it?

I also find interesting how Muslims perceive themselves as warriors from God, just like Hindus believe as well, but the war to be waged isn't a war against infidels or other countries, but an inner war between righteousness and vice, I believe that Jihad means the same isn't it?



In this picture we see Krsna, which simbolizes the soul, the higher self or the supreme personality of God, training his disciple arjuna, who simbolizes the devotee who seeks god with a sincere heart on the arts of spiritual battle, we can see also the two opposing armies of good (the forces of the soul) vs the armies of evil (the forces of ego)

السلام عليكم

[elwill]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

Thanks for sharing this friend, the more I know about Muhammad (pbuh) the more I bow to him as I bow to all the true saints and prophets from all religions.

i can't describe my feelings with hearing these words
that's all we want from non_muslims , we dont want to force you to be a muslims , we just want kind of respect for our relegion and our prophit .

I find it interesting how, many people think that muslims are the radicals, fanaticals and terrorists, and yet you are giving an example of tolerance and acceptance, that many people from other religions lack, the image of the creator in you is strongly felt.

people whom didn't know muslims in personal , thier sources about muslims is from the media which distorted it's real face of them

Even though our faiths are different, we've never argued on whether we love and seek the same God or not, and when we've had dialogues to exchange our beliefs and traditions, we do it with an open mind and find it enlightening to discover how it is the same God we worship after all, instead of believe that our faiths are the only way.

you described now very beutifull verse from qoran
God say to mohammed (pbuh)
64 - Say(o'mohammed): O people of the book come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lord and patrons other than God.
if then they turn back, say ye: bear witness that we (at last) are Muslims (bowing to God's will)

Something that I found very interesting is that for Hindus, who lived on the time of Jesus, he was known as Isa, that was the name they gave to him during the time he spent training himself with spiritual masters in India and south east asia for his mission, this is the same name that muslims use for Jesus isn't it?

yes it's the same name
i think that the names cant to be change with changing of language , if your name is john in english it must still john in arabic and will still john in aramic either
but the changing of the real name of Isa to jesus is happened cause of differnt langauge , characters, bad spelling which may be changed the original name of Isa to Jesus

I also find interesting how Muslims perceive themselves as warriors from God, just like Hindus believe as well, but the war to be waged isn't a war against infidels or other countries, but an inner war between righteousness and vice, I believe that Jihad means the same isn't it?

you understand islam very well , Travelling fella

193 - And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

In this picture we see Krsna, which simbolizes the soul, the higher self or the supreme personality of God, training his disciple arjuna, who simbolizes the devotee who seeks god with a sincere heart on the arts of spiritual battle, we can see also the two opposing armies of good (the forces of the soul) vs the armies of evil (the forces of ego)

thank you for these information , i don't know much about hindus beliefs
but i heared that mohammed (pbuh) mentioned in thier scriptures , but i never argued with them about that.
did you hear about that before ?

السلام عليكم

وعلــيـكـم الـسـلام