Report: Women beginning to vastly outnumber men in church attendance

[mari4him]

Originally Posted by cncracer

I wonder if the genetic makeup in women provides a higher ratio of females with the “god Gene”. I have looked, and can’t find where it was studied based on sex. My second thought would relate to the need for females to be social, and a church situation provides an environment suitable for not only socializing, but also doing it while dressed up. These two pastimes are popular with the two women in my household even if not in a church.
I think as an afterthought, I would have to say there is no way to understand why females do anything and it is best just to ignore any trends which seem to be sex linked.

While such things honestly do not apply in regards to myself personally, I must say it may make for an a somewhat plausible argument. In some cases, because while it is not a general trend which could be stated across the board for either gender, the commonly held belief is... yes, women tend to be more into the whole socialization and getting dressed up than men are. Although, my belief is that if this is the sole or even main reason why a woman is attending church then the point of church is missed. But that is just my personal opinion.

An afterthought from my previous post though is another reason why it could be is because of the nurturing aspect of women, especially with regard to their children. If churches offer various activities or programs for young children and for teens for example, this may be another motivator for women to be attending insomuch as they bring their children with them to participate in those functions.

I am only speaking in terms of the why's I may think there are more women than there are men because honestly, being that I am not a man, I cannot begin to try to speak for them inasmuch as what is causing the problem from a male perspective nor figure out how to correct it and increase the male presence in church.

All I can offer is a female perspective and my experience in what I have heard being the reason from either other wives or even some men themselves in conversations that have taken place during a get together or so.

[Sixthday]

[SIZE=3]You must be one of those "women keep silent" types. Absolutely I am. Sorry to say not in the way you have alluded to. Isn’t it too bad that we can’t use that at face value with Eve? Just think if that verse was to be used for her. If she would have kept her yap shut, well we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today now would we? But to “fair and balanced” I am also in agreement that Adam did what the verse says he kept his mouth shut while the serpent was tempting Eve. “She gave also to her husband with her” and he ate. Genesis 3:6 the only time we see Adam opening his mouth other than naming the animals is when there is food around typical male. Just so you know I am not the Neanderthal man that you have made me out be. Soooo sorry! Not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead ; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. 1Peter 3:9. So not to return insult I would like to give you a blessing in truth of the verse that was misquoted. I think you was referring to 1 Corinthians 14:34 “The women are to keep silent in the churches ; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.” I would like to leave you with a few quotes from men who I think you would find to be godly men with understanding of God’s word the first is taken from J. Vernon McGee Thru the Bible Vol. V. He quotes from 1 Corinthians 14:34 “Now what is he talking about here? Tongues. He is not is not saying that a woman is not to speak in church; he is saying that she is not to speak in tongues in the church. My friend, if you take the women out of the tongues movement, it would die overnight. You may say, “That’s not a nice thing to say.” I know it’s not nice, but it is truth.” [/SIZE]
One other person that I would like to introduce you to is John MacArthur, if you have been a Christian for any length of time you will know who he is. This quote comes from his book The MacArthur Bible Commentary by John MacArthur. He quotes “The principle of women not speaking in church services is universal; this applies to all the churches, not just locally, geographically, or culturally. The context in this verse concerns prophecy, but includes the general theme of the chapter, i.e. tongues. Rather than leading, they are to be submissive as God’s Word makes clear (see notes on11:3-15; Gen. 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:11-15). It is not coincidental that many modern churches that have tongues-speaking and claim gifts of healings and miracles also permit women to lead worship, preach, and teach. Women may be gifted teachers, but they are not permitted by God “to speak” in churches. In fact, for them to do so is “shameful,” meaning “disgraceful.” Apparently, certain women were out of order in disruptively asking questions publicly in the chaotic services.” So there you have it. This is my understanding on what 1 Corinthians 14:34 teaches. Hopefully this has been a blessing and not an insult to you

[mari4him]

Originally Posted by Sixthday

Apparently, certain women were out of order in disruptively asking questions publicly in the chaotic services.” So there you have it. This is my understanding on what 1 Corinthians 14:34 teaches. Hopefully this has been a blessing and not an insult to you

Not insulted at all. Thank you for in your very own statement quoting from John MacArthur, which yes I am familiar with, you state exactly what Paul was addressing... not women in general all around universally for all time to come. Paul was addressing a particular time, particular churches, in this case particular women who were "out of order" "who were publicly creating chaos". Hence, he saying they ought to remain silent. Ask their questions later at home.

As for the rest of the stuff like women not being allowed to speak in tongues at church... since when is man the dictator of when God given gifts ought to work or be used. God gives the gift. And in the lives of those genuinely surrendered to the will of God it is God who instructs its use. God who directs its use.

Personally, I have received the gift of tongues. I can't make myself use it on a spur of the moment simply because "oh I think I will speak in tongues right now". No. Rather it is as the Spirit gives utterance. It just happens. And when it does just happen, I can't stop it as in "ooops, not right now, ut oh, wrong time and place". No. Again, it is as the Spirit gives utterance and I can not, nor would I want to even if I could, silence the Holy Spirit.

GOD said He would pour out His spirit on sons AND daughters and THEY would prophesy. God never said "I will pour out my Spirit on my sons and they will prophesy always and upon my daughters and they will prophesy except while in church, there my daughters will remain silent".. nope can't seem to find where GOD said that.

As for the whole if Eve had kept her yap shut thing we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now... Well glad you tried to balance it out there with bringing in Adam into it because honestly it can come down to what came first chicken or the egg. If Adam had taken dominion over the serpent as he should have done and not allow it to sit there and continue its deception then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. If Adam had chosen to not DISOBEY by eating the fruit we maybe would not be in the mess we are in now because at that point only Eve had eaten.

But see... it all started there. Blame the woman. Why not? Adam did. In fact blame God too. Why not? Adam did. Eve was honest. The serpent deceived me. Adam... nah lets not be accountable and take responsibility for our shortcomings and our failures. Nope. The woman YOU (speaking of God) gave me... she gave it to me and I ate. It's her fault, and yours for giving her to me God. She made me do it.

Please.

I love a good strong godly man and have absolutely no problem with his leadership and showing him respect and all that good stuff. Contrary to what you may believe I am not one of these "women liberals" who wants to wear the pants in the home. But the one thing that I am very clear on is the my submission is to God first and foremost. My obedience is to God and to the call of God on my life. AND... if God tells me to speak... believe me I am going to speak. To do otherwise because a "man" says I can't or shouldn't would be making "man" my god instead of God or in place of God. And that is not happening.

God made me a strong intelligent woman and He has gifted me in certain ways and surely it is not for me to sit on those things and squash them under a bunch of legalism which kills the Spirit of God.

[Dusty Rhodes]

Report: Women beginning to vastly outnumber men in church attendance



I'll admit this does confuse me somewhat, I suspect it may just be, that, for one hour, they do not have to put up with the male ego and the relief is a necessity. Face it guys!!! We can be a bit much to put up with on a regular basis.

[Sixthday]

Well I’m sure I made sure that what I said was that I was quoting from John and Vernon verbatim. As far as “your” gift goes and your wrong interpretation again from Joel about sons and daughters prophesying unless you are a Jew and lived during Pentecost which was what Joel was prophesying about that prophecy became fulfilled at Pentecost why else would Peter have quoted that prophecy? I can see by your lack of knowledge of scripture it’s obvious you don’t have a clue to context of scripture. And that we can debate this until Jesus comes. Just know this that what you have is not from the Holy Spirit but is from a spirit if not just your carnal mind. Whether you know it you have been led in these few conversations to show exactly why men don’t want to come to church and why preachers get tired of listening to hens cackle with their carnal spirituality. You should be searching the scriptures and find the truth that it holds instead of going by some carnal teaching. I would ask why is tongues used for this day and age since we are no longer at the foundation of the church but actually the roof. Who was tongues given to and why? Tongues of course are to what? Edify “yourself”. It really is sad to see immature Christians “babes in Christ” is what the Apostle Paul calls you in Corinthians to use so much energy defending the least of the gifts and be wrong in the teaching of it also. I also challenge you to study John MacArthur’s teaching on the gift of tongues, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as well. You might just become free from the lies that you hold so true. Remember your serpent in the tree is right beside you still, telling you lies and you believing every one of them. By your own confession to how you understand scripture. May God send His light and truth to free you from the spirit of religiosity and come to know Him in the power of His resurrection and in the fellowship of His suffering being conformed to His death.

[mari4him]

Originally Posted by Sixthday

Well I’m sure I made sure that what I said was that I was quoting from John and Vernon verbatim. As far as “your” gift goes and your wrong interpretation again from Joel about sons and daughters prophesying unless you are a Jew and lived during Pentecost which was what Joel was prophesying about that prophecy became fulfilled at Pentecost why else would Peter have quoted that prophecy?

Wow.. okay... so what you are basically saying is that God has changed. Oh and yes.. you are also saying that He is a liar. Why? Because God's word clearly says He is the same yesterday, today and forever. God never changes. What He did then, He can and will do again, IF He so chooses to do so. But according to you, this is a lie. God is not the same today as He was back then and what He did for people back then, He will not or cannot do for people today.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

I can see by your lack of knowledge of scripture it’s obvious you don’t have a clue to context of scripture. And that we can debate this until Jesus comes.

I don't pretend to be a bible scholar or expert no. But I do take the time and bother to read scripture in context and study it in context. I also do not choose to simply apply scripture as it is convenient to me at the moment. But apparently you do.

Let me see... according to you the Joel prophesy does not apply to sons and daughters today because well it was for the people back then. But conveniently the women be silent does not apply only to certain women back then but does apply to ALL women today.

Okay... I got your double standard interpretation and theology now. Thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by Sixthday

Just know this that what you have is not from the Holy Spirit but is from a spirit if not just your carnal mind.

Really now. Okay. I know differently and better. But thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

Whether you know it you have been led in these few conversations to show exactly why men don’t want to come to church and why preachers get tired of listening to hens cackle with their carnal spirituality.

Sorry, nope. All that I have been led in these few conversations is to confirm my initial thinking that you have pretty low opinion of women, you know those "hens" cackling. Furthermore, you have further confirmed that some men will use any excuse to try to justify their not standing up and doing something they should be doing by turning around and trying to place the focus on "lets blame the women". Yup... thanks for confirming this in just a few conversations.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

You should be searching the scriptures and find the truth that it holds instead of going by some carnal teaching.

Oh I do. And whenever I am in doubt, it is not carnal teaching I seek my answers from but scripture itself and I am always open and yielded to the Holy Spirit for guidance and direction in leading me in all truths. But wait, maybe you won't believe that either because God said He left His Holy Spirit, the comforter, who guides us in all truths but maybe, yup that's right, maybe it was just for those people back then and doesn't apply to us.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

I would ask why is tongues used for this day and age since we are no longer at the foundation of the church but actually the roof. Who was tongues given to and why? Tongues of course are to what? Edify “yourself”.

For the very same reason that it was used back then or is God no longer building His church? If not then why should any even evangelize anymore. The church is the body of Christ and it is still growing and being built today. God is not finished yet. If He were, Jesus would have already returned.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

It really is sad to see immature Christians “babes in Christ” is what the Apostle Paul calls you in Corinthians to use so much energy defending the least of the gifts and be wrong in the teaching of it also.

Immature? Babes in Christ? I've been saved now for 14 years and while I know God is nowhere finished with me and I do in fact learn many new things daily, I am far from being or even being interested in being a babe in Christ satisfied with milk rather than digging in and getting the meat of God's word.

You jumped in on all this my defending the least of the gifts. First, I wasn't defending the gift.... I was merely stating what God said. I don't have to defend the gift. It is what it is. I wasn't even seeking it when I got it. It just happened and there is nothing to defend and if there were, God is fully capable of handling that job.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

I also challenge you to study John MacArthur’s teaching on the gift of tongues, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as well. You might just become free from the lies that you hold so true.

I have read plenty of commentaries. I don't have a problem with commentaries. I find commentaries to be very useful at times. However, I don't study commentaries. I study the Word of God. Commentaries are still just man's interpretation and twist on scripture and for every commentary you can find on a scripture, you can find another which says something either similar, slightly different, and even at times vastly different than the other. But this doesn't mean they can't be useful and should be ignored. Like I said, I do like them and I do use them often. However, it is the Word of God that I study. It is the Word of God that I follow. Not the words of MacArthur or any other "man".

Originally Posted by Sixthday

Remember your serpent in the tree is right beside you still, telling you lies and you believing every one of them. By your own confession to how you understand scripture.

And just as the serpent was there right beside Adam speaking those lies which ultimately led to Adam disobeying God's command, the serpent is right there beside you too. The serpent is beside every single one of us whispering lies and roaming around like a roaring lion seeking whom to devour. Unlike what you seem to try to insinuate that it is the women he is still deceiving today, one of the greatest deceptions he has played on mankind is getting men to focus so much on Eve's being deceived that they fail to see that he deceives them too.

So just like you assume that it is me he is beside deceiving me with his lies, it could just as easily be you that he is doing this too.

I still haven't heard one "men take responsibility" type answer from you regarding the OP and men being outnumbered in church by women. All I have read from you is how it's all the woman's fault in one way or another.

Originally Posted by Sixthday

May God send His light and truth to free you from the spirit of religiosity and come to know Him in the power of His resurrection and in the fellowship of His suffering being conformed to His death.

Wow.. okay spirit of religiosity. You speak as if you would actually have a clue about who I am and you don't. But I guess thank you nevertheless because I am always grateful for prayers upon myself for God's light and truth to continue to guide my path and my growth in Him.

Furthermore, I thank Him every day of my life for having revealed Himself to me so that I know Him as I do in the power of His resurrection and in the fellowship in His suffering. Where each day I can die more and more to myself as I pursue growing in Him and the knowledge and freedom that He provides. I thank Him for His Holy Spirit that comforts me and leads me in all truths. I thank Him that nothing is impossible with Him and that through Him I can do all things for it is He that strengthens me. I thank Him that He allows me to come boldly before His throne as His precious beautiful daughter whom He loves and delights in and whom He has set free.

[Huckleberry3911948]

i could forgive that but a lot of them are pretty crazy. dont go there guy.

[Sixthday]

Your right Huckleberry. Thanks