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TrickyD, the God of the Old Test is the same God of the New test, but you can not take one with out the other, and that is the picture you need.
The Old Testament tells how a loving God is righteous, just, and his word is true (among other things of course). The OT tells how God punishes sin and also how to become free from sin, by sacrificial offering once a year.
Then comes the NT. It is still the same loving God that is righteous, just and true (among other things). It tells a story about Jesus the messiah of the Jews and gentiles (later) who offered up his life as a sacrifice for all people's sins, so that anyone can come to the Father and spend an eternal life with God.
These are not exclusive ideas, they work together. It would make no sense if God wasn't just, righteous, and punished sin. If God punished sin by only a tap on the hand then there would be no need to offer the Son, and the Holy Spirit wouldn't be needed either as sin would not be important and all would be in eternal life with God.
The OT and the NT together make up the promise of life through Jesus and also explain the purpose of Jesus and how God's words are true. If we knew that God's words weren't true, then why would we even choose to believe his words in the forst place?
It is all a big picture, you can't take one without the other.
GCSTroop, I did not try to touch off any fire storm within you. I apologize if I offended you by asking you a question why you have so little faith in things and lack the ability to trust things without seeing it first. In all reality, and you may not believe this, I was praying for a way to pry into you a little, and the thought that you had been hurt as a child was entered into my mind. Take it for what it is, it may be a divine message or it may be psycho-babble as you said, but it obviously got you going. My bad. You were asking for proof and I asked for some proof to give you. Maybe it worked maybe it didn't.
Either way, I am not trying to convert you. I can not convert you. Only the Holy Spirit has the power to convert you to a believer. I may be a piece of the puzzle or I may be a wrong piece of the puzzle, ether way it isn't my doing that you are mad about right now. It is your resistance to giving up your "I can do it myself-ism" that is driving you mad.
I still pray for you that one day you will see the light, it isn't the giant leap of faith you think it is...
I will end here.
stuckinbalad, please cut down on your presumptuousness. It's offensive and only serves people like me to have one more reason not to believe.
stuckinbalad, please cut down on your presumptuousness. It's offensive and only serves people like me to have one more reason not to believe.
Being alittle presumptive about me being presumptive aren't you?
I was responding to a conversation in which GCSTroop and I were having and I happen to feel that (actually he/she basically came out and told me) this poster has a lot of "I can do it myself".
TrickyD, the God of the Old Test is the same God of the New test, but you can not take one with out the other, and that is the picture you need.
The Old Testament tells how a loving God is righteous, just, and his word is true (among other things of course). The OT tells how God punishes sin and also how to become free from sin, by sacrificial offering once a year.
Then comes the NT. It is still the same loving God that is righteous, just and true (among other things). It tells a story about Jesus the messiah of the Jews and gentiles (later) who offered up his life as a sacrifice for all people's sins, so that anyone can come to the Father and spend an eternal life with God.
These are not exclusive ideas, they work together. It would make no sense if God wasn't just, righteous, and punished sin. If God punished sin by only a tap on the hand then there would be no need to offer the Son, and the Holy Spirit wouldn't be needed either as sin would not be important and all would be in eternal life with God.
The OT and the NT together make up the promise of life through Jesus and also explain the purpose of Jesus and how God's words are true. If we knew that God's words weren't true, then why would we even choose to believe his words in the forst place?
It is all a big picture, you can't take one without the other.
You are making the OT god sound so nice when the idea of "rightousness" is debatable and it's common knowledge that the OT is a million times bloodier that the NT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 kings 2:23-24
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Samuel 18:25-27
25And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies. But Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines.
26And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king's son in law: and the days were not expired. 27Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers 16:23-24, 31-33
23 Then the LORD said to Moses, 24 "Say to the assembly, 'Move away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.' " ...
28 Then Moses said, "This is how you will know that the LORD has sent me to do all these things and that it was not my idea: 29 If these men die a natural death and experience only what usually happens to men, then the LORD has not sent me. 30 But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave, [c] then you will know that these men have treated the LORD with contempt."
31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them, with their households and all Korah's men and all their possessions. 33 They went down alive into the grave, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. 34 At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, "The earth is going to swallow us too!" 35 And fire came out from the LORD and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.
Okay let's see in one instance god got dozens of youths mauled because they called Elisha a baldhead
On the other David is asked for the foreskin of a 100 philistines and just for the sake of it brings 200
And lastly during those decades that millions of jews were left wandering around the dessert, God swallows Korah and 250 people simply because they complained that they have been wandering aimlessly around the dessert for ages.
This is definetely my biased mind speaking but the gods of the OT and NT are different or have changed, more specifically, they changed with the zeitgeist.
You are taking a history of thousands of years and condensing it into several books in the OT (forgot about Psalms and proverbs which speak of Gods everlasting and faithful love and beauty) and comparing it to something that was written about over the course of really 3 years + about maybe 10 for the acts and letters.
Is there violence in the NT, sure there is, just read about the pasison and the crucifixion, ask Jesus what God will do to those who will not believe in the Spirit (the topic of this OP). Violence is there too, but the picture is of a God who is just and righteous and faithful and true.
Being alittle presumptive about me being presumptive aren't you?
No it's right there:
Quote:
ether way it isn't my doing that you are mad about right now. It is your resistance to giving up your "I can do it myself-ism" that is driving you mad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinbalad
I was responding to a conversation in which GCSTroop and I were having and I happen to feel that (actually he/she basically came out and told me) this poster has a lot of "I can do it myself".
What of it? When I have a hard exam coming I don't go "god please give me knowledge to pass this exam", I realize I am the only one responsible for my grades and study harder than ever before, I don't feel the need to ask for willpower to pass through a hard time because I know it's in there already. Plus you aren't arguing against a "I can do it myself" attitude, you are arguing for a "I can do it with the christian god on my side" because I don't think you would be ok If, after listening to your advice, people went "I can do it with the help of Satan"
Lastly I'm not sure how you can be surprised at the responces. Would you like if people went "I feel that you are a christian because your mommy or daddy never loved you enough so you need to believe in some imaginary benevolent being", I would think that it takes at least some empathy to be a christian or a good person even.
You are taking a history of thousands of years and condensing it into several books in the OT (forgot about Psalms and proverbs which speak of Gods everlasting and faithful love and beauty) and comparing it to something that was written about over the course of really 3 years + about maybe 10 for the acts and letters.
Is there violence in the NT, sure there is, just read about the pasison and the crucifixion, ask Jesus what God will do to those who will not believe in the Spirit (the topic of this OP). Violence is there too, but the picture is of a God who is just and righteous and faithful and true.
Sorry but I don't believe good things cancel out the bad. A murderer might give money to the poor but that wont change the fact that he has murdered people. God also has a big title to live up to "benevolent" and as I've said, chalk it up to my bias but someone who buries 250 people alive for complaining does not deserve to be called "all loving"
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinbalad
BTW, what is the zeitgeist?
It's a cool german word that translated into "spirit of the age" basically 100 years ago racism was ok, 50 years ago inequality between men and women was ok ect ect... the attitutes a society takes changes over time, it doesn't necessarily mean for the better but you see that what used to be ok such as slavery no longer is.
People living at war with others thousands of years ago will inevitably have a zeitgeist that reflects an accepting actitute towards killing the enemy. Thousands of years later, living in relative peace under roman control will inevitably create a more peace oriented attitude in its people.
He has fooled much of the world into believing in either the lack of God, or other pathways to eternal life with Him (the Father).
Just poking my nose in here....
How do you know there aren't other pathways? All you've ever been told by the Bible and by your god is that there aren't.
When your faith is based around 'saving souls', of course it's going to say there aren't other paths -- when you call people 'decieved' and show them the 'right way', you can more easily convince them that their way is supposedly wrong.
How do you know there aren't other pathways? All you've ever been told by the Bible and by your god is that there aren't.
When your faith is based around 'saving souls', of course it's going to say there aren't other paths -- when you call people 'decieved' and show them the 'right way', you can more easily convince them that their way is supposedly wrong.
The Bible is shown to be true by it prophecy. The Bible speaks of the future before it happens. All other religions do not have this kind of prophecy. And the reason for this is because only God's knows the future, and God did not write books for the other religions. If you want to know what will occure in the future you will have to read it in the Bible. For only the Bible has prophecy that has been shown to be true. You really need to get some understanding of the prophecies found in the bible. They are powerful and cannot be dismissed.
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The thing is that I do not fear God and have faith that when I cross God in any way He will be just.
So if I do not fear God does this than mean that I do not take the God of the OT or do I not take the God of the NT?
