What kind of God fails to answer prayers? (grace, disciples, agnostic)

[jest721]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoi

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?

I find this post the easiest one to respond to. I think this whole topic is really about perspective. The best way on this Earth that I have found to understand my relationship with God, it to look at my relationship to my young children. I will respond in those terms:
Though I am not omnipotent, I do exercise a great deal of power in my childrens' lives. I allow them to make bad decisions, not because I lack the will or power to stop them, but because they cannot learn and progress by me simply responding yes or no to every request. They would never mature. I do not consider this malevolent. Periodically, a situation may exist that requires my intervention; this would be a miracle.
I would not be doing my job as a father if I took either extreme: intervening continuously, or withdrawing completely.
Your post reminds me of the old omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent.
As far as death, which seems to be the prevailing theme in these types of discussions, I think some perspective will assuage our fears and our pain. Just like that piece of candy my 4 year old begged, even prayed for, in the end he will realize it's not all that important. Perhaps God sees death the same way, not a burden, but an opportunity to reunite with us, perhaps even serve a practical purpose for the bereft.

[SouthernBoi]

Originally Posted by jest721

I find this post the easiest one to respond to. I think this whole topic is really about perspective. The best way on this Earth that I have found to understand my relationship with God, it to look at my relationship to my young children. I will respond in those terms:
Though I am not omnipotent, I do exercise a great deal of power in my childrens' lives. I allow them to make bad decisions, not because I lack the will or power to stop them, but because they cannot learn and progress by me simply responding yes or no to every request. They would never mature. I do not consider this malevolent. Periodically, a situation may exist that requires my intervention; this would be a miracle.
I would not be doing my job as a father if I took either extreme: intervening continuously, or withdrawing completely.
Your post reminds me of the old omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent.
As far as death, which seems to be the prevailing theme in these types of discussions, I think some perspective will assuage our fears and our pain. Just like that piece of candy my 4 year old begged, even prayed for, in the end he will realize it's not all that important. Perhaps God sees death the same way, not a burden, but an opportunity to reunite with us, perhaps even serve a practical purpose for the bereft.

That is one of the most profound perspectives I have heard on this subject in a long time....thank you for sharing your viewpoint

[Colddiamond102]

Originally Posted by Al555

An AP story reported this week on the MSNBC website noted that 57% of Americans believe that, in response to prayer, god sometimes intervenes to save the lives of terminally ill patients. Twenty percent of physicians/health care workers also believe that "God could reverse a hopeless outcome." Of course, the article mentioned nothing about recent scientific tests of the efficacy of third party prayer on health and recovery, data which might have placed these beliefs in some sort of reality anchored context. Oh well.

But there is another angle on the god-answers-prayers belief that I find interesting. About 92% of Americans believe in some sort of god, mostly the conventional Judeo-Christian one. There is an awful lot of praying going on. In fact, I think you would be hard-pressed to find an accident victim or terminally ill patient in the US who is not prayed for by someone, and these prayers, I would bet, usually are pleas for recovery. That is, I doubt that people pray simply that god's "will be done", which would then permit the conclusion that the absence of a miracle is "god's will", part of his secret plan. No, I think people come right out and beg god to spare the lives of people they love.

So if, for the sake of argument, we say that the 57% in this poll are correct, that there is a god, that he/she hears prayers, and that he is powerful enough to effect miracle cures, then the interesting question is, why does he ignore so many prayers? Because one thing we know for sure, death is occurring at a predictably high rate. Terminally ill patients, prayed for or not, almost always die from their disease. And people continue to die in senseless, tragic, heart breaking ways.

Again, accepting the premise of the 57%, what kind of god would respond in such a stingy, seemingly capricious way? I think that believers let god off the hook by saying that, you know, he acts in mysterious ways. Your loved one dies a horrible, agonizing death, despite your prayers, and you think, well, in ways that I can't understand, it's part of god's good plan. Some plan. Or, some say something like, god is not just loving but a cruel and angry god (more real world evidence for that, I think), and like a good parent, he punishes us when we need to learn something important. He let my child drown to get my attention, to get me spiritually on track. Too many sick ideas in that belief to mention.

So, what can we infer about a god who obviously fails to answer so many prayers? What's going on with him? Any thoughts?

I obviously have too much free time today.

He does answer all prayers. But sometimes his answer is "No." or "Wait" instead of "Yes".

[Indi9]

Alas, some people have mistaken God for Santa Clause.

[Magnulus]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoi

That is really insightful...I perhaps may be too smart for my own good, which is why I have a hard time believing in any religion...I think I might take a closer look a Buddism, as maybe a more philisophical outlook on life might put things in more perspective for me

In truth, you will find Christians that say the same thing, so I don't want to say that is an exclusively Buddhist belief. But normally that kind of realization is only obtained by Christian mystics, scholars, or the clergy. 80 percent of Christian practice out there is "faith"- pray to God and good things will happen, you will be saved, etc. There are similar Buddhist and Hindu practices as well, for instance Hare Krishna or Pure Land. But, pure faith is not the only way to practice religion. We can go beyond just faith and actually try and practice things in our lives and try and reach understanding.

Ultimately, though, in Buddhism and Hinduism, seeing the world as essentially good or evil is a personal choice, a choice that has consequences. If we focus on the evil we see in the world, that leads to impure intentions and suffering. Our intentions have powerful consequences on the world. If we want to do good, to see good, those things will all happen. But it has to be a pure motive. Wanting gain for solely for yourself, or to take something away from others, is not a pure motive.

[bobmulk]

Who said God doesn't answer prayers? The problem with all of us is that we pray for what WE want, not for what the Lord wants. As our Heavenly Father, He alone knows what we really want and need, unfortunately, we are too often blinded by bling and ask for it instead. God is waiting for us to understand Him and before we ask. Then He answers.

Also, oftentimes God does answer, but we are too ignorant to see it because it's not the answer we want. So, we are naturally inclined to be angry with God. The problem is we are looking at God as though He's human or our own personal genie in a bottle. We need to understand Him and know Him.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by bobmulk

We need to understand Him and know Him.

How can people understand God if they don't understand other people?
If ya ask me most people don't even truly understand themselves.

Then again there are also people who when they don't want to go to church or something and it happens to be raining, see this a sign from God that He wants them to stay at home.
And other people believe that God wanted them to commit genocide.

[bobmulk]

Tricky D: You've GOT to be kidding me. You can't honestly as a presumably intelligent adult include the lunacy of genocide in a discourse on God, can you? No one with the intelligence of a door knob believes that has anything to do with God. It has everything to do with lunacy.

As for the person who decides rain is a reason for not going to church--what is the point? We're not talking about feeble-minded people here. There is a serious discussion going on--at least there was until you brought up this blather.

[jest721]

Originally Posted by bobmulk

...You can't honestly as a presumably intelligent adult include the lunacy of genocide in a discourse on God, can you? No one with the intelligence of a door knob believes that has anything to do with God. It has everything to do with lunacy...

It depends on who you believe God is, but if you beleive in the biblical God of the Old Testament, then you must believe that God has historically demanded genocide.

[Miss Martha]

Here is my humble opinion and my personal experience.

When I was young I used to pray for every little thing. From wanting candy to having my great-grandparents, grandparents and parents never die. I would become frustrated when my selfish prayers were not answered the way I wanted them to be.

As I got older I started praying for more relevant things, things that were not my specific desires, things that did not directly involve me. Like the orphans in romania and in the phillipines. Not every single one of my prayers was answered the way I wanted it to be, but I believe that they were all heard and they were all answered. Whether the answer was "wait", "yes" or "no" was not up to me. It was not my decision, that is why I prayed about it in the first place.

The most wonderful prayers for me are the ones in which I say "Lord, let me understand your will, let me be at peace with whatever you decide, one way or the other." Do I always understand the Lord's will, no I do not. Am I always at peace with the answers to my prayers? No I am not, not right away anyway. But I know that I will not always get my way. Everyone learns that at some point or another. We also have control over the things we do personally, whether it is to go get tested to see if we can be a bone marrow doner, or to donate our organs should anything happen to us. Whether it is going on missions trips to less fortunate countries and areas of the world that need our help. Whether it is sending any amount of money to a child or a family that needs it more than we do instead of buying that iPod or that PS3.

I have lost many people who are near and dear to me, yes, I prayed that they would be able to stay on this earth, but those were selfish prayers. My friends and family members who passed on were ready and willing to go on. They were beautiful and wonderful people and they had closure with their deaths. My motives were selfish and I am happy for them now that their suffering is over and they will never have to suffer again.

Why should we be surprised when God calls the wonderful people home, why should we be shocked that he wants to spend time with them too?

To hate God or to decide that you do not believe in God is a personal decision and I do not look down on those who make it. I really appreciate the people who understand that loving God and serving God are also personal decisions and it does not mean that the people who follow him are following blindly. Some of the most inquisitive people I know are Christians or believers in God and they question everything and accept nothing at face value.

Everyone asks this question and I believe it was stated already on this thread that it is up to you whether you will see the good in the world or the evil. Or if you do see the evil in this world, do your best to do something about it yourself. It is up to us to see the glass as half full or half empty.