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The problem here is that a member of a cult cannot see or realize that it is a cult until after leaving it. ...This fact is fairly well known.
That is obviously a problem, it can be
However that is NOT a 100% always true fact. Many people have realized issues and left religious/spiritual paths while still in them.
But you have me in a bind, instead of listening to my thoughts and experiences, you will just dismiss them out of hand as the ranting of a deluded, blind, cult member.
In others words, you will reject out hand any input from people involved or students of something you label as cult - because of this excuse
Which of course means you get to continue to perpetuate false information, sloppy data, etc. and don't need to challenge your self with facts and non agreeing positions.
yeah that is a problem if one wants an honest and open discussion
Do you?
if you set aside the aggressiveness of my responses, which is just how I am regardless of topic, do I really sound like a robot, non thinking, brainwashed, blinded to truth cult follower? Are my responses full of rhetoric, non factual, genuflecting to the lord high master kind of thing?
or is that just a covenant way to button hole me, as it means you don't have to think about my points.
Oh, and Im not sure if I made this point earlier, I have friends that are pretty much anti-cult trained, one being the only person to have gotten millions from Church of Scientology in a lawsuit that took over 25 years, and he learned allot in that period. I have discussed in the past all of my findings and the practices of MP with him and some other folks, remember I was doing due diligence for a year or more. I am even a technical webmaster, as a volunteer effort for a long standing anti-cult website and have/will work with organizations like anonymous.
net, I am not your average blind follower.
I understand the destruction that cults can/do cause, I've shared the pain with people struggling in this area. But I also know that the anti-cult 'field' is more art then science. And the filed is rift with people who's real issue is religions, gurus, anything of that ilk - they will jump on calling something a cult at the slightest of evidence, because of thier larger agenda. There even anti-cult experts who generate fear and doubt, just to keep themselves in business, not all anti-cult experts are good, integral people.
In any case, MP is cultish, just like most social organizations, like high school football can be cultish
It is not, imho, a destructive cult.
Is Sri Gary a sham, charaltan, even if he is not leading a destructive cult
That is a very different discussion. See my earlier post about how one judges if a path is real, working, for them.
Last edited by allan1015; 03-23-2009 at 03:16 PM..
hey Allan, When you receive your second initiation, you begin a monthly initiate report to the "Master." A heads-up for you: Gary doesn't read those reports and hasn't since early 90's.
But he stands before his chelas asking them to keep their initiate reports to a single type written page, feigning eye strain, and the endless hours he spends reading them. I believe he is given a condensed overview in a paragraph from those who are assigned with that job.
Wow, yup, that sacred master/chela relationship that Gary honors is so evident in the lies he tells to his students.
Thanks
I knew of course that monthly reports we part of the duties, a far cry from the vows I need to make on the more eastern/traditional indian light and sound paths.
I never really though that Sri Gary read all of the reports, would that be like a thousand reports or so each month? I deduced from some satsangs that doing the reports is more a vehicle for me then homework the teacher would be grading and reviewing, and having one of 'teachers aides' look them over is also something I expected.
The problem is of course the real work happens on the inner, its the inner master that is of more interest to work with.
of course, the whole inner master concept leaves it open for attack since I cant prove to you my inner experiences, hell they may be so subtle I am not consciously aware of them.
So we seem to come back to how does one tell if the path/teachings i working for them.
which I discussed above.
You want another silly thing, several months back I sent a letter to the office requesting the 2cd. I mis understood how the clock works on the investigation period. I got a form letter back letting me know they would let me know when I was eligiable, not a problem. But it ended with something akin to the master was aware and pleased with my progress, something like that. It felt so disengenous in a form letter like that - like sure
I've no doubt I will find other things in the organization, how it works, that I can use a detractors.
What matters more is if its working for me.
When I do my second this fall, I will look to see if there is any commitment, or allusion to a commitment that Gary will read all or even some of my reports. Its not how I expect it to work, and other chelas tell me the same, they don't expect he reads all of them.
My personal spiritual beliefs are mine and none of your business, because I do not espouse them to others.
I rail on frauds like Gary Olsen and Master Path because I am a rational human being, and see nothing but Gary Olsen being enriched by Master Path.
Organized religion has a long history of abuse and I see most of it as fraudulent. What good I see in 'religion' are the few committed people that use the church as a conduit for helping the less fortunate.
Most true believers do this quietly, feeding the needy in soup kitchens, bringing meals and companionship to the elderly and generally giving of themselves selflessly.
This occurs in religions that I distain, but I laud the individuals.
Gary Olsen perpetrates a fraud on his followers because he is unoriginal, greedy and a hypocrite.
Well I am impotent, most from the ED that strikes when your 50+ and have diabetes
but Ive been lifting weights, 8 weeks straight now, 3 days a week, havent missed at all even when sick -t hats a record for me.
Also technically I am really impotent from the vasectomy that I had in my early 30s, 4 kids was enough
But I am not apologizing.
So your educated wisdom is that my range of authenticity is:
- have no life
- totally buy into Gary's crap
- clueless minions.
- a moron flying a religious banner because you are incapable of independent thought.
- A no life clueless moron incapable of independent thought and totally buys into Gary's crap
Is that it?
ah yes, there was one other
- an a mother fracker - entertaining type
You cant do better? Come on, you must have more educated ways to stand up for your biases and beliefs. Are you going to disappoint with these low life angry dismissals as your only defense for your wickedly destructive beliefs? shame.
Ok, so you made it clear we need to broaded the post above
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
The problem here is that a member of a cult cannot see or realize that it is a cult until after leaving it. ...This fact is fairly well known.
There is another version for the same thing, its just an extension and it goes like this:
The problem here is that a anti-cult/guru/religious member cannot see or realize that a spiritual path may be healthy and appropriate for some .. This FACT is well known
To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To you, well it all looks like a destructive cult.
But I do agree, end_of_faith is the only presenting anything respectable, because she does have experience. But even she is angry and is looking for supporters. You and others just throw out ****, ignore facts and basically just try to assert ego dominance or cut down your opponent. Really you haven't present anything at all that I can remember is factual, just some heresay, stuff from a decade ago, etc. And any time I give you an educated, factual response, you just spout more demeaning remarks. Perhaps this works with your girlfriends, but not on me.
If/When you want to go back and forth with facts and data and all that, let me know, others wise I'll just chalk you up as you are, an angry person who cant tolerate people who disagree with them.
Last edited by allan1015; 03-23-2009 at 08:16 PM..
Well I am impotent, most from the ED that strikes when your 50+ and have diabetes
but Ive been lifting weights, 8 weeks straight now, 3 days a week, havent missed at all even when sick -t hats a record for me.
Also technically I am really impotent from the vasectomy that I had in my early 30s, 4 kids was enough
You cant do better? Come on, you must have more educated ways to stand up for your biases and beliefs. Are you going to disappoint with these low life angry dismissals as your only defense for your wickedly destructive beliefs? shame.
Technically impotence has nothing to do with producing sperm cells, it is lacking in power, strength, or vigor. Or, unable to engage in sexual intercourse because of inability to have and maintain an erection.
Sorry about not being able to get it up, but maybe that is why you post in defense of a sham cult here on this site.
I am educated in the ways of cults like Gary the scam artist's Master Bait. I also know of his hypocrisy, plagiarism and excesses that he indulges in specifically.
To argue this with you is of no value except to show other people on the board that what you say is the opinion of some one that has already drunk his Kool-Aid.
Now, as to this inane sentence:
"Ok, so you made it clear we need to broaded the post above."
I have no idea what that means, so maybe it is you that needs to 'have more educated ways to stand up for your biases and beliefs'.
You have nothing to stand on except blind belief in the charlatan Gary and his cult sham. I have reason and knowledge of scam artists like him, and a healthy skepticism of all organized religion.
BTW: to lump Master Bait into 'organized religion' is quite a stretch, but I figure you need a little patronizing.
Apparently you did not,or will not, understand that metaphysics is pure science, not "flowery fluff in the sky" If you can prove the existence of this "spirit" by use of science and the requisite mathematics, I will certainly listen, otherwise, ---re-read passage on lunatic fringe. That the earth revolves around the sun is a fact, as is nuclear physics, vulcanology, only to the great unwashed does "metaphysics" mean something other than it's relation to science and the works of Aristotle, the "Physics". Perpetual misuse by the ignorant does not change the meaning.
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I'm done with Masterpath
