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Sorry about not being able to get it up, but maybe that is why you post in defense of a sham cult here on this site.
Ok, you failed, well I suspected you couldnt resist the low hanging fruit - so to speak
You did byapss the girlfriend comment, so I'll give you points back for that.
Am I posting in defense of MP? Indirectly I guess,
I am, so far, imho more defending against ignorance, slander, misinformation and hidden agendas, such as yours.
You allude to having knowledge, but knowledge not worthy of sharing with anyone here, or me especially? But think of the value and service you would provide to all the future MP students, the lives you would save from that wicked Sri Gary, if you could, just could, present me with some conclusive perspective, or even evidence, facts.
I think it is a shame you wont present such information just because of me, because you see no value in my opinions
Really, see me as the brain washed, non thinking, rigorous convert, imagine the glory and the goodness you could do if you won me over, or even forget that, what if you could even, just once, present a cogent argument? One I had to concede to or acknowledge.
Come on now, for the sake of all those future and current victims of MP, please continue the dialog and show us hypocrisy, plagiarism and excesses that make him unfit as a man, as you have alleged.
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"Ok, so you made it clear we need to broaded the post above."
I have no idea what that means,
Oh whippy you found a spelling error, please dude try harder
It was broaden, we needed to broaden the scope of the quote about people being blinded by thier current situation
See the original poster made it sound like only people in cults are blinded to what going on around them. Its not only folks in cults, its folks like you as well. You can't see the goodness and value in a guru lead path as I do, because of your issues.
none are so blind as those that refuse to see
So my point, that you missed because you couldnt see past my spelling, my bad sorry, was that you can feel free to call me blinded all day, but the truth of the matter is you suffer from the same human limitation as well.
is that clearer now?
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You have nothing to stand on except blind belief in the charlatan Gary and his cult sham.
I have my experience, my research, I've matched your facts and shown to be weak at best. It feel like your just trying to dismiss me out of hand and in a very borad way because you cant keep up. When your loosing, attack attack.
Perpetual misuse by the ignorant does not change the meaning.
We'll I disagree, Im sure you wont like this, but sheit happens, things change.
Words take on new meaning, loose old one, all the time.
So while I understand your desire to conserve the word, or you desire to try and make me look silly, which ever is highest in you, I also disagree with your premise.
In my technical life I work with meta-data - data about data. I thought of metaphysics as sorta physics about physics
But lets see if your claim that meta physics must be about physics holds up.
Which dictionary, source materials shall we use?
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Metaphysics investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science. - wikipedia
investigates
reality
transcending
physics
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The prefix meta- ("beyond") was attached to the chapters in Aristotle's work that physically followed after the chapters on "physics", in posthumously edited collections. Aristotle himself did not call these works Metaphysics.
Oh My God!! The word was a physical description of chapters in a book, it was used for those thoughts that came physically in book after, beyon, the chapters on physics.
How frigged awesome. I didnt know that. But unfortunetly it doesnt make your case, these were definitely thoughts/philosophy in addition to, outside of, physics.
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Before the development of modern science, scientific questions were addressed as a part of metaphysics known as "natural philosophy"; the term "science" itself meant "knowledge" of epistemological origin. The scientific method, however, made natural philosophy an empirical and experimental activity unlike the rest of philosophy, and by the end of the eighteenth century it had begun to be called "science" in order to distinguish it from philosophy. Thereafter, metaphysics became the philosophical enquiry of a non-empirical character into the nature of existence. Thus the original situation of metaphysics being integral with (Aristotelian) physics and science, has, in the West, become reversed so that scientists often consider metaphysics antithetical to the empirical sciences.
Ok, the bolding is mine, but this wikipedia entry seems to disagree with your, that meta-physics, at least in the west, is not just about physics, but actually beyond physics.
Dont you think?
Are you from a Eastern, non-Western country/schooling? Perhaps that can explain the difference - an I am not the ignorant **** you make me out to be
Anyway, the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an interesting article as well
Ancient and Medieval philosophers might have said that metaphysics was, like chemistry or astrology, to be defined by its subject matter: metaphysics was the “science” that studied “being as such” or “the first causes of things” or “things that do not change.” It is no longer possible to define metaphysics that way....
So what can I say, every place I look your wrong and I'm right!
ok, that was over the top, but the sources don't seem to support your rigid definition, apparently the words meaning has already been corrupted and its hard thing to define.
Ok, so given this might be cultural differences, given that crediable sources find the word hard to define, does that still mean I am a new age idiot because I use it the way I do?
thanks for having me think about this
Last edited by allan1015; 03-24-2009 at 12:14 AM..
You are a fool. Yes, you are blinded by your own blowhard mental certitude and the imaginary belief that Mr. Olsen is in possession of spiritual truth, or that he represents Sant Mat.
You are not here to ‘discuss’ anything with anyone. You are here to do what MasterPath does so well: trash and demean the viewpoint of everyone else in order to elevate yours/theirs. You don’t have the good sense that God gave a goose.
I began MP willing to believe it was a path of truth, love, and wisdom. I ended MP seeing Gary Olsen for the man he is: an arrogant control-freak caught in the illusion of his own grandiose pseudo-spirituality. It seems you resonate with that level of consciousness. You prove that water seeks its own level. Continue reveling in your self-delusion, and projecting it onto others as though you see truth and they do not. You don’t “GET IT” Allan.
People like you are most helpful to men like Gary. I know that you are clueless. And while you praise your own spewing of nonsensical bull**** as evidence of critical thinking skills, you seem far more focused and intent on deflecting critical thinking in others, and it appears that you are the ONLY one on this forum who can’t see straight.
Your research is flimsy at best. Your motivations are self-serving. And your rational mind is non-existent. You exude the irrational lunacy of a person who defends a belief system that cannot be substantiated on anything other than what you have been spoon-fed. And you, my friend, will be the last to see it.
FYI: I haven’t even bothered to read most of what you have written. A quick perusal suffices. Your rebuttals to everyone sound like a record stuck on a one-dimensional note of discordant repetition.
And by the way, I’m not here looking for support. News Flash for you Allan: NOT necessary or a requirement to be a paying member of the MP cult to know truth, you moron. You clearly lack the depth of inner commune you so self-righteously proselytize on the outer. You exhibit signs of having no self-awareness whatsoever. You repeatedly show that it isn’t a thoughtful discussion you wish to engage with people, it’s the Allan show: lambast everyone on this forum with Allan’s insatiable need to be RIGHT. Which makes you the most wrong!
And just so you know: it isn’t anger that moves me. In fact, this forum has brought me a great deal of laughter. It has been a blast for me to read thoughts expressed by the participants that are rational, clever, witty, and profound. And I’m not referring to you.
Word to the wise, Allan: In your misguided attempt to ‘set the record straight’ for people, what you are really doing is revealing just how brainwashed and lost you are.
No I didn't 'give' up, there just isn't much to say when one goes off in such emotional rants.
What does one do when people accuse you of exactly the things they are doing? I mean seriously who has been the more irrational, emotional, who has deemed and attacked and dishonored more so then end_of_faith and her last rant?
Frankly, I see end_of_faith of doing 10x the bull**** she trys to pin on me.
As example, she accuses me of not being here to discuss when the truth is she is not looking for discussion - she is looking for someone to commiserate with. Observedly, others are not looking for discussion, they are looking to spout off and put down any religious/spiritual path that doesn't fit their own beliefs. They really dont care that its Gary Olsen or MP, they are happy to trash anyone thats a guru and spiritual paths that teaches what MP does.
There is no way to really deal with such manipulative judo, reversals and falseness. That I know of.
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I began MP willing to believe it was a path of truth, love, and wisdom. I ended MP seeing Gary Olsen for the man he is: an arrogant control-freak caught in the illusion of his own grandiose pseudo-spirituality.
Gary may well be arrogant and control issues. So? I say 'so', because what is important to me is what I am getting out of the spiritual path I am on. I don't care if my guru has some human faults. Some. This would be an area for an interesting discussion about gurus and how'perfect' they should be
>> a belief system that cannot be substantiated on anything other than what you have been spoon-fed.
Now there is potential for an interesting discussion. How does one 'evaluate' the efficacy of a belief system? How does one substantiate the beliefs of say Judaism?
How does one evaluate the efficacy of a true master? Other then doing the basic research, looking for red flags and stuff, one past those, isnt 'results' the key thing to judge by?
For me the proof is in the pudding so to speak. What is my internal experience, is my life, is my consciousness growing? do I see more balance in it? more control over emotions, things like that.
What would be interesting is end_of_faith input and experience - did she use any metrics for the long long time she was in MP? How does one not figure out after a few years that stuff isn't working?
Anyway, I've no 'need' to be right, but no one has disproven anything I've said as 'facts' or arguments. Really the main response tactic seems to be to yell at me and try to put me down. Who's not having the intellegent, open, honest, discussion again?
You fail to understand end_of_faith, and for that matter, me.
end_of_faith obviously speaks from specific experience and an intimate knowledge of the sham 'religion' of MasterPath. She, and I, are trying to warn the naive and trusting folks that might fall for such a fraud and waste time, money and emotions on a huckster like Gary Olsen.
You are either taken in by the scam or are in on it. I can think of no other explanation.
Time will show that she, I, and others are correct in our assessment of this cult. How many were like us, and like you, in discussions of other shams of history that resulted in so much death and misery?
Well i had to run to the gym and walk the dog and a few other comments
end_of_faith is correct that my arguments are not examples of much high intellect, deep logic, overly critical thinking, etc. I agree
What I found to be disappointing is that they didn't have to be very deep arguments too present a case against the rash, unsubstantiated, off the cuff judgments that most people have presented.
I don't offer that as any tricky insult, its the truth
Not one major, recognized anti-cult person offers any evidence, rick ross website that collected stuff, mostly > 20 years old, is about it.
The people presenting their opinion here have, in great party their own agendas, like the last guy that find fault with money changing hands.
In short a great deal of emotion, very little discussion and a propensity to trash people and things they don't know much about and ready to condemn anyone that disagrees with them.
I wait patiently for a discussion where my thinking skills might be exercised
You fail to understand end_of_faith, and for that matter, me.
end_of_faith obviously speaks from specific experience and an intimate knowledge of the sham 'religion' of MasterPath. She, and I, are trying to warn the naive and trusting folks that might fall for such a fraud and waste time, money and emotions on a huckster like Gary Olsen.
You are either taken in by the scam or are in on it. I can think of no other explanation.
Time will show that she, I, and others are correct in our assessment of this cult. How many were like us, and like you, in discussions of other shams of history that resulted in so much death and misery?
I understand quite well. Your trying to push your opinions and judgments on others while using fear and 'greater good' as your defense.
Which is fine, but I am also free to sit here and speak my experience and challenge your position.
But your response to me is to dismiss and condemn as I am either incapable of free thought or lying and working for da man.
There could be another explanation - your opinions are just that opinions, your claims of judging someone and calling them a destructive cult out to do harm - are quick, unfounded and based on your personal beliefs more than facts.
It really s that simple. I've no interest in defending MP or Gary, and certainly don't care one bit of recruiting or convincing anyone to join.
I do seem to care about your kind of judgmental nonsense going un challenged, of letting innuendo and slander stand as truth, of letting your unspoken agenda's going unobserved, that kind of thing.
Like for example, your deeply cynical against any guru led path, right? You could care less if its Gary or not. And by the way what was the 'evidence' you provided?
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Message to Allan:
