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The DOI was original written by someone in Skibo, NC and sent to England where it was rejected, Thomas Jefferson plagiarized it and was therefore credited with the DOI...If memory serves, the original is on display somewhere here in North Carolina...
I am curious about something, if the Pilgrims came to America to be free to practice the religion that they wanted and that was what "this country has been founded on". Than why do I hear so often that our fore fathers were Christians and that is why we should bow to Christianity in America. And why were so many innocent people were killed in Salem when they were or accused of being witches. It just seems like some serious confusion. Any takes on this?
The pilgrims cared not one iota about religious freedom - they simply wanted the power to practice their religion and impose their religious dictates on everyone in their community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg
The declaration of Independence invoked God to trump the Monarchy.
As usual, you're wrong.
The Declaration of Independence - which is an airing of grievances and a statement of intents, not a legally-binding document of any sort - refers only to 'Nature's God', which is a Deistic concept. The notion of 'Nature's God' rejects both personal revelation and the idea that any deity interferes in any way with the ongoing world. These traits, of course, run completely contrary to virtually all flavors of the Christian stew, yet those clear and obvious facts have never stopped Christians from falsely claiming that the 'Nature's God' of the non-Christian Founders indicates that they were Christians or at least embraced overt Christian concepts.
Aside from that, when it came time to start actually making law - not just announcing what they intended to do and why - the Founders were very careful to exclude any deities from the civic discussion.
So, to sum up, the primary founding documents of the American republic contain precisely one reference to a deity, that being a non-Christian one and occurring only as an aside in an introductory paragraph proceeding a body of text in a document that neither carries nor ever was intended to carry any legal weight.
So, to sum up, the primary founding documents of the American republic contain precisely one reference to a deity, that being a non-Christian one and occurring only as an aside in an introductory paragraph proceeding a body of text in a document that neither carries nor ever was intended to carry any legal weight.
Well, actually, there *is* one reference to a deity in the Constitution.
Down in the signatory section where all the members of the then Continental Congress signed it, there is a part where the date is written which says:
"Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names...."
However, in those days, signing things with the "Year of our Lord" was as common as signing something with "sincerely" in modern times.
Since the reference to a deity is not contained in any of the legal or procedural sections of the Constitution, it still shows that the Founders were trying to keep religion out of politics.
Well, actually, there *is* one reference to a deity in the Constitution.
Down in the signatory section where all the members of the then Continental Congress signed it, there is a part where the date is written which says:
"Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names...."
However, in those days, signing things with the "Year of our Lord" was as common as signing something with "sincerely" in modern times.
Since the reference to a deity is not contained in any of the legal or procedural sections of the Constitution, it still shows that the Founders were trying to keep religion out of politics.
I don't think 'in the Year of our Lord' can even be considered a reference to a deity when it is merely referring to the dating convention being used, in the same way that the references in the Constitution to 'Monday' and 'Sunday' do not in any way refer to the deities Luna or Helios, from which their names respectively derive.
Well, I can offer this based on observation and research, and this information is on the internet, in local libraries and in journals stretching in collections all over the New England Area
Remember first, the the pilgrams, a branch of Engish Seperatists who wanted escape from what they believed to be persecution from the Church of England. What they REALLY want was the opportunity to persecute others, rather than be the persecutees.
If you look at the Puritan influence of The New England colonies throughout the 17th century, and the historical record is explicit, these individuals did everything from burning and torturing supposed witches to banning the celebration of Christmas ! no wonder England would not want people like that. These people Did NOT want a republic or a democracy, they wanted a THEOCRACY, and that theocracy with Their beliefs as the core.
Fact is, if you look at their attitudes and philosophy, THEY WERE NOT NICE PEOPLE !!!!
In other words, the idea of founding colonies for religious liberty extended to others is hogwash, a later ideal imposed on the real reasons. Check into the founding and operation of Maryland, for instance. The ONLY colonies to practice the kind of religious liberty OP speaks of were Rhode Island, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
The DOI was original written by someone in Skibo, NC and sent to England where it was rejected, Thomas Jefferson plagiarized it and was therefore credited with the DOI...If memory serves, the original is on display somewhere here in North Carolina...
There was a fairly strong refutation of the 'plagiarism' claim presented by William Henry Hoyt, in 1907.
The Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence: A Study of Evidence Showing that the Alleged Early Declaration of Independence by Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, on May 20, 1775, is Spurious.
Pilgrims were not Puritans. Pilgirms tolerant of others.
Pilgrims and Puritans were NOT the same people and should not be lumped together.
Pilgrims were tolerant separatists who respected others religious beliefs. There were many in their community who were not of the same beliefs and were not forced to conform. Pilgrims civil administration was also separate from their religion, unlike the Puritans.
Don't be like the Puritans during the witch trials and vilify innocents without the facts.
Pilgrims and Puritans were NOT the same people and should not be lumped together.
Pilgrims were tolerant separatists who respected others religious beliefs. There were many in their community who were not of the same beliefs and were not forced to conform. Pilgrims civil administration was also separate from their religion, unlike the Puritans.
Don't be like the Puritans during the witch trials and vilify innocents without the facts.
Also, though I'm not a big fan of the Puritans, it was a very small group of people that caused the Salem witch trials, not the Puritans as a whole.
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In other words, the idea of founding colonies for religious liberty extended to others is hogwash, a later ideal imposed on the real reasons. Check into the founding and operation of Maryland, for instance. The ONLY colonies to practice the kind of religious liberty OP speaks of were Rhode Island, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
Pilgrims were not Puritans. Pilgirms tolerant of others.
