Faith Alone or Faith AND Works? (salvation, grace, church, zealous)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some religions believe in Faith and Works with Catholics front and center on that position while many other Christian religions believe in Faith alone?
What is your religion and position on this crucial subject? Does your position agree with your religion?
Is the "once saved, always saved" position your position?
Faith without works is just mere theory. Imo Jesus is a man of action and not a philosopher.
People who act need to have faith anyway, since people without faith mostly become disillusioned and deeply depressed.
Our works are part of the sanctification process and the 'fruit'(proof) of our salvation.
If we believe a real Jesus came to a real earth and hung on a real cross and bled real blood as a payment for our sins, how can we not obey and follow Him in deed as well as faith as an acknowledgment of our belief/commitment?
Some religions believe in Faith and Works with Catholics front and center on that position while many other Christian religions believe in Faith alone?
What is your religion and position on this crucial subject? Does your position agree with your religion?
Is the "once saved, always saved" position your position?
I think it takes both. The bible says "faith without works is dead..."
About the "once saved, always saved" idea: I think there are those individuals who get saved in a revival meeting or wherever, then turn their backs on Jesus, turn away from serving Him; they return to thier old life of sin. Can they then count on entering heaven, having turned against the Savior? I don't believe in the theory that you can get "saved", then live your life serving the devil, because "you are safe now...'cuz you just can't get unsaved"...so "live like you wanna...who cares, and no worries mates!" Instead, the Bible says to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". Why? Perhaps....because.....the foolish can throw away their precious faith....squandor away their life living in sin and idolatry. Then on judgement day are they going to say "but Lord, I went forward at so-and-so's revival meeting and got SAVED...you HAVE to let me in!". Is the Lord going to say (with much sadness) "Depart from me...I never knew you..."
Our works are part of the sanctification process and the 'fruit'(proof) of our salvation.
If we believe a real Jesus came to a real earth and hung on a real cross and bled real blood as a payment for our sins, how can we not obey and follow Him in deed as well as faith as an acknowledgment of our belief/commitment?
Yes this is what I believe also. Our works have no saving power. And yes I believe in once saved ALWAYS saved.
The Bible has alot to say about the relation of faith and works. From these verses we can conclude that works will not save us.
Romans 3: 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Why then are we instructed to do good works?
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Tit 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
The following verses tell of the relationship between faith and works:
James 2:14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
True faith WILL result in works. Verses 14-17 bring out the point that no matter how much we say we have faith, if we do nothing our faith is dead. The example is given of seeing someone destitute, wishing them well yet doing nothing about it. Are we really wishing them well? Similarly to God, if we say we love Him, yet do nothing about it, do we love Him? Verse 18 illustrates this "I will shew thee my faith by my works." Abraham & Rahab's faith was justified because they followed God, proving their faith. An inactive faith is dead.
And no, I don't believe in "once saved, always saved."
Yes this is what I believe also. Our works have no saving power. And yes I believe in once saved ALWAYS saved.
Say you were saved and 15 years later you left your church and joined a church that believed that faith and works get you to heaven, would you still be saved regardless of what you do in this world or how you treat your fellow man?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Imo Jesus is a man of action and not a philosopher.
