Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: home
1,040 posts, read 1,331,515 times
Reputation: 79

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Watch this and tell me how you think it all came about...Personally I have no idea.
Astrophysicist, cosmologist and Nobel Prize winner George Smoot studies the cosmic microwave background radiation -- the afterglow of the Big Bang.

George Smoot on the design of the universe | Video on TED.com

So far He hasn't told me something I don't know. Yet. I love this kind of stuff. It just shows that who ever created such grandeur, is God.

Last edited by Lionpainter; 08-31-2009 at 06:44 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:39 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,306,173 times
Reputation: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
This subject may have been beaten to death before, but here we go again.

Ground rules:

1. No using religious scripture, of any kind, to "prove" God exists. It may be used to back up an assertion, or in conjuction with a statement, but not as the key evidence. In other words, please, nobody come by and say, "God exists because the Bible/Qur'an/anything else says so." OK?

2. Stick to the subject. This isn't about proving or disproving any religion; it's just about the reality of God. Other things may flow from this subject but, right now, let's stay on topic, if we may.

Arequipa:

Let's start with a general assertion, which I will make.

There is SOME sort of guiding force behind the creation and managment of the universe/creation. Whether or not that's the God of the Bible, or any other concept, can be discussed later.

To me, the idea that it's all just random happenstance, a total accident, is just too outrageous to believe. The complexity and inter-connectedness of all things simply defies the possibility of that argument. In fact, I would suggest it takes more faith to believe in total randomness than it does a guiding force of some kind.

Just look at the universe as a whole. Galaxies, black holes, quasars, suns and planets spinning in perfect unison along predictable and measurable paths. The speed of light being constant everywhere within that universe, except in places where there is a rational explanation for its increase or decrease in speed, such as in the proximity of black holes. It's TOO orderly, TOO predictable, TOO measureable to be total chance which created it.

Then, look just at this little planet. It's JUST the right distance from the sun, with JUST the right amount of gravity to hold JUST the right atmosphere to support every living thing here, no matter how different from other life forms. It is self-regulating, self-renewing, self-cleansing and astonishing in its complexity. Water,winds, currents, temperatures...all must be just as they are for life here to survive and, more importantly, those things which support life here now don't seem to have been present when life first arrived. It was hotter, wetter, more violent, yet life has been sustained over time, including some species which seem to have adapted from a radically different enviornment than the one they first appeared in and thrived nonetheless. Can Darwinism totally and completely explain that? What are the odds?

I find that notion incredible. (By the way, I'm not trying to open a creationism/evolutionism debate here because I'm not among those who believe the Genesis description of creation is literal and neither do I think the earth has only existed for 6000 years. To me, that's as incredible as believing it's all random chance.)

So, what say you? Do we agree on this, or do you have a different opinion. (At this point, opinions are about all we have, aren't they, as there is no definitive proof one way or the other.)
Well, I began to feel God and experience who He was before I even knew who He was. I didn't read the bible and wasn't taught to really know who He was. God came to me and began to reveal who He was by showing me things in my life. So, to me God is real because a Real God came to me and began to interact with me.

I didn't see or hear a burning bush, but God has shown me things on a scale of belief that I had no choice but to believe and trust what I was seeing and hearing.

So, yes, Jesus is real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: home
1,040 posts, read 1,331,515 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Well, I began to feel God and experience who He was before I even knew who He was. I didn't read the bible and wasn't taught to really know who He was. God came to me and began to reveal who He was by showing me things in my life. So, to me God is real because a Real God came to me and began to interact with me.

I didn't see or hear a burning bush, but God has shown me things on a scale of belief that I had no choice but to believe and trust what I was seeing and hearing.

So, yes, Jesus is real.
Amen! and God bless you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:57 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,506,441 times
Reputation: 1775
I don't think we should allow "I feel it in my heart" arguments, because that is not a valid form of proving an argument. If it were, a psychotic person could prove that the CIA was transmitting radio waves into his head.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,019 posts, read 34,393,868 times
Reputation: 31647
Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
God is in my heart and mind. That is all the proof I need.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
But how do you present "proof" to someone else?
Not our job to prove anything
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,537,557 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Everything does look completely random to me. I think it doesn't look so to you because you only look at the evidence that confirms your theory, but ignore that which refutes its. For example:



You ignore all of the billions of planets that likely exist in our universe that ARENT just the right distance from the sun, that DON"T have enough gravity, that CAN'T hold an atmosphere.

If there were only one planet, and that was earth, it might at first glance seem guided. But when you consider the billions of planets that exist, probability theory suggest that at least some of them would be just the right distance away from the sun and have all those qualities. It would be illogical to assume NONE would.

Sorry I have to run now, hopefully you see what I mean.

Yes, there are other planets which aren't perfectly suited to sustaining life as we know it here on earth, but why should they be? They're not earth, are they? So far as we know, none of them sustain life of any kind, which does tend to point out the uniqueness of our little corner of the universe. However, even if they did contain some life, it would seem obvious that they too are perfectly suited for whatever lives there.

Since we still can't find life of any kind on any other planet, even within our own solar system, how does random chance explain that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,537,557 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
Is there REALLY you ?

Good question! For all any of us knows, we're all just figments of someones imagination or maybe the whole universe is just dirt under someone's finger nail and he's got his pocketknife out for cleaning right now!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
4,792 posts, read 5,904,050 times
Reputation: 3103
Look at all the people who aren't tall, who aren't fertile, who don't have red hair, who were only born with one lung. Why should the Universe have to be a uniform perfect "cookie cutter" universe when nothing else is ? Variety is found all over in nature. God's variety show. For people who believe in God, no proof is necessary, for those who don't believe, or don't want to believe, no proof is possible. We can waste time trying to prove, but I would rather watch a pretty sunset, and see a bat chasing bugs at dusk.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,537,557 times
Reputation: 7807
Here's an interesting piece I found which expands upon my initial post.

I've omitted the last 2 of the 6 reasons for copyright rules and because they are Christianity specific, which we're not ready for yet.



Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there.

By Marilyn Adamson
Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.
How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billions of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it....

Does God Exist - Six Reasons to Believe that God is Really There - Existence of God - Proof of God
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,798,703 times
Reputation: 2497
I look at the ocean, I see God.

When my children were born, I saw God.

When I consider love, I see God.

In my mind, there is no way life "just happened".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top