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A Baker's Dozen fact-based and irrefutible proofs that Christianity is but an illusion. Each one chips away at the basic foundations of a belief system that was formulated in an era that completely preceeded any rational questioning and answering. Everything was "awesome" and "startling" and "scary", thus leading to some of the more manipulative or imaginative citizens to evolve, over hundreds of years, an ever-more elaborate story of mythic proportions.
Too bad about the also-evolving conflicts in their versions though. Unfortunately, the various vastly differing religions across the globe did not get together in an international conference to get their stories timed right, in sequence. The Chinese, for example, wrote of their discoveries hundreds of not thousands of years before the evolution of the greater Christian fable of Genesis.
They did not note (nor did the North American Indians or Aussie Aboriginals or South Americans, or Mayans or... or...) of any globally inundating floods 2500 years ago. Ditto for co-existant, vegan, saddled-up massive dinosaurs. Instead, we have very reliable anecdotes from the Thai culture about the final design evolution of a three-stringed musical instument (the khlui) almost exactly 2500 years ago, as the logical outcome of muchearlier instruments in the evolution of the type for the preceeding hundreds of years.
The recent new tools of DNA genome mapping, and the logical outcome of lineage tracking which clearly proves evolution, plus such inevitable uses as Lenski's definitive proof of speciation in bacteria (into a more capable type that branched off from a lesser version) all point to the consequences of science's inevitability to answer our questions. As well, if we do not allow for any Evolution, how then is it that the genotypes of the various billions of humans on this planet all have unique and obvious differences (hair color, height, genetic diseases, race, physical abilities, amount of body hair, et.c et.c ad infinitum).
If we were ALL clones of Noah's incestuous family, first of all, we'll all be dead from massive incestuous genetic disorders, and second, any unlikely and unfortunate survivors would be clones, genetically and visibly identical.
The inevitability and relentless nature of scientific inquiry will eventually put the veritable boot to all of Christianity's fables. There will always be those who yell "NO!! NoNoNoNono!", but how convincing will that be to generations of millions of kids growing up in an enlighted and educated world, all linked inexoribly together by the Internet?
So: here's the quick, Baker's Dozen list of well-supported lines of reasoning and evidence. Not my purpose to debate each of them; they exist. Scientists and a growing vast majority of the public, all agree on these. The arguments against them have all proven to be specious (i.e.: superficially attractive but of no real or proven value), and of course those arguments remain convincing only to those who want, desperately, to believe them.
But to the larger population, each one of them is at least worthy of some further intellectually honest investigation, and taken as a whole, they pretty much put the larger Christian myth to bed.
Have a nice sleep!
------------------------------------------
Inconvenient Truths that Disprove Christianity.
1. Latest DNA genome mapping and lineage tracking. If you can read a sequence of letters and compare them to those from another sample, you will be convinced.
2. Latest nuclear isotopic decay and other well-proofed” means of dating artifacts. They cross-support each other, and reliably date items of known age.
3. Geologic column findings consistent over the entire surface of the earth. PS: there's no evidence for a singular global flood.
4. Vast conflicts and outright errors in the supposedly “inerrant” biblical accounts, even between versions of the bible. Hijacking of parts of the greater biblical mythology from earlier Greek and other cultures and accounts is obvious.
5. Major inexplicable conflicts with well-documented historical accounts from far more scholarly and advanced cultures that pre-date the biblical stories (Chinese, N. American Indians, Inuit, Thai/Asian; Tibetan).
6. Fossil evidence for millions of types of now-extinct species, in ever more primitive forms as we go deeper and thus older in our geological history. Dated, reliably, to be hundreds of millions of years old. AiG lies notwithstanding.
7. Varves. All on their own, they disprove a young earth, and thus are the focus of relentless lies and nonsense interpretations.
8. Dramatic but nonsensical denials and story-telling creativity about well-rehearsed but now disproved biblical myths: Noah’s Ark; a global inundating flood; Adam and Eve; parting of the Red Sea; Jesus himself as the Son of God.
9. Persistent possibility of life on other planets that may have, or still are, visiting and observing us. And perhaps they're just taking notes on their grand experiment in Evolution.
10. The logical impossibility that any one singular macro-intellect could have (a) conceived of an entire universe, and then, just as easily (b) mentally popped it all into physical existence, converting mental images into physical forms. All instantly. This myth was started when the scientifically illiterate and pagan authors had no idea of the vastness of the Universe we have now only begun to uncover.
11. Relentless denials of far more logical answers to our origins. (Ockham's Razor raises it's logical head.) We will likely never know what exactly happened at the moment of our universe’s creation, but we should not then just lay down and concede. To overlay the extreme limits of our IQ or ability to imagine or conceptualize beyond our personal human limits is to give in to mythology. And thus stupidly conclude, by default, that someone, something else, had to have done it, on purpose. Interestingly, when we do PREDICT and speculate what the likely or required consequences of a Big Bang would be, we then, voila, do indeed, find the predicted consequences. Pretty strong evidence.
12. The faker Intelligent Design argument falls on it’s own logical face, in requiring an ever-more intelligent being to create such vast complexity. Who then, designed Him? And who designed that designer? You cannot simply stop at a point of convenience and mutter that “God works in mysterious ways!”
Such an argument is, simply put, irrational. It's only value? It's convenient, and requires no further thoughts or curiosity.
13. The insistence by public school educators in adding a non-scientific agenda to science classes. Their frantic fear of having young open minds exposed to rational, logical critical thinking is patently apparent in their dramatic efforts to censure scientific thinking. Of course, ID is a now-proven hoax, intended to masquerade it as “science”, which, by definition, it is not. Such a response from the fundamentalist Christian educators is proof of their fears about honest, open curiosity.
__________________________________________
Just a few of these lines of rational reasoning, if proven to be fact, throw significant doubts on the entire biblical story and indeed on Christianity itself. I know several Christians who now completely agree with the scientific evidence behind each of these facts, but say that’s not necessary to their belief.
I disagree.
If all or most of the basic tenets of a mythical belief system are systematically disproved, one must accept that the entire system is but a figment of wishful thinking.
I wonder why you have no received more responses to your post?lol
I think the reason is that if you take any one of the 13 independent statements, none of which depend on the validity of any of the others, you're faced with the impossible task of refuting them if you happen to be a young earth creationist. It would be less of a challenge if you were a Christian who was open to the concept that God is behind proven scientific facts such as evolution over an extremely long timespan. I don't think you can place all Christians into the same category though because some believe in a literal word for word Genesis account of creation (even though it contradicts itself with multiple explanations) while others are more open minded and do accept modern science. Rifleman seems to be focusing on the young earth creationists and their refusal to budge an inch on the 6,000 year old earth, Captain Noah, etc. even though they never seem to take Revelations literally which I have always found to be irritating. I think they should at least be consistent.
A Baker's Dozen fact-based and irrefutible proofs that Christianity is but an illusion. Each one chips away at the basic foundations of a belief system that was formulated in an era that completely preceeded any rational questioning and answering. Everything was "awesome" and "startling" and "scary", thus leading to some of the more manipulative or imaginative citizens to evolve, over hundreds of years, an ever-more elaborate story of mythic proportions.
Too bad about the also-evolving conflicts in their versions though. Unfortunately, the various vastly differing religions across the globe did not get together in an international conference to get their stories timed right, in sequence. The Chinese, for example, wrote of their discoveries hundreds of not thousands of years before the evolution of the greater Christian fable of Genesis.
They did not note (nor did the North American Indians or Aussie Aboriginals or South Americans, or Mayans or... or...) of any globally inundating floods 2500 years ago. Ditto for co-existant, vegan, saddled-up massive dinosaurs. Instead, we have very reliable anecdotes from the Thai culture about the final design evolution of a three-stringed musical instument (the khlui) almost exactly 2500 years ago, as the logical outcome of muchearlier instruments in the evolution of the type for the preceeding hundreds of years.
The recent new tools of DNA genome mapping, and the logical outcome of lineage tracking which clearly proves evolution, plus such inevitable uses as Lenski's definitive proof of speciation in bacteria (into a more capable type that branched off from a lesser version) all point to the consequences of science's inevitability to answer our questions. As well, if we do not allow for any Evolution, how then is it that the genotypes of the various billions of humans on this planet all have unique and obvious differences (hair color, height, genetic diseases, race, physical abilities, amount of body hair, et.c et.c ad infinitum).
If we were ALL clones of Noah's incestuous family, first of all, we'll all be dead from massive incestuous genetic disorders, and second, any unlikely and unfortunate survivors would be clones, genetically and visibly identical.
The inevitability and relentless nature of scientific inquiry will eventually put the veritable boot to all of Christianity's fables. There will always be those who yell "NO!! NoNoNoNono!", but how convincing will that be to generations of millions of kids growing up in an enlighted and educated world, all linked inexoribly together by the Internet?
So: here's the quick, Baker's Dozen list of well-supported lines of reasoning and evidence. Not my purpose to debate each of them; they exist. Scientists and a growing vast majority of the public, all agree on these. The arguments against them have all proven to be specious (i.e.: superficially attractive but of no real or proven value), and of course those arguments remain convincing only to those who want, desperately, to believe them.
But to the larger population, each one of them is at least worthy of some further intellectually honest investigation, and taken as a whole, they pretty much put the larger Christian myth to bed.
Have a nice sleep!
------------------------------------------
Inconvenient Truths that Disprove Christianity.
1. Latest DNA genome mapping and lineage tracking. If you can read a sequence of letters and compare them to those from another sample, you will be convinced.
2. Latest nuclear isotopic decay and other well-proofed” means of dating artifacts. They cross-support each other, and reliably date items of known age.
3. Geologic column findings consistent over the entire surface of the earth. PS: there's no evidence for a singular global flood.
4. Vast conflicts and outright errors in the supposedly “inerrant” biblical accounts, even between versions of the bible. Hijacking of parts of the greater biblical mythology from earlier Greek and other cultures and accounts is obvious.
5. Major inexplicable conflicts with well-documented historical accounts from far more scholarly and advanced cultures that pre-date the biblical stories (Chinese, N. American Indians, Inuit, Thai/Asian; Tibetan).
6. Fossil evidence for millions of types of now-extinct species, in ever more primitive forms as we go deeper and thus older in our geological history. Dated, reliably, to be hundreds of millions of years old. AiG lies notwithstanding.
7. Varves. All on their own, they disprove a young earth, and thus are the focus of relentless lies and nonsense interpretations.
8. Dramatic but nonsensical denials and story-telling creativity about well-rehearsed but now disproved biblical myths: Noah’s Ark; a global inundating flood; Adam and Eve; parting of the Red Sea; Jesus himself as the Son of God.
9. Persistent possibility of life on other planets that may have, or still are, visiting and observing us. And perhaps they're just taking notes on their grand experiment in Evolution.
10. The logical impossibility that any one singular macro-intellect could have (a) conceived of an entire universe, and then, just as easily (b) mentally popped it all into physical existence, converting mental images into physical forms. All instantly. This myth was started when the scientifically illiterate and pagan authors had no idea of the vastness of the Universe we have now only begun to uncover.
11. Relentless denials of far more logical answers to our origins. (Ockham's Razor raises it's logical head.) We will likely never know what exactly happened at the moment of our universe’s creation, but we should not then just lay down and concede. To overlay the extreme limits of our IQ or ability to imagine or conceptualize beyond our personal human limits is to give in to mythology. And thus stupidly conclude, by default, that someone, something else, had to have done it, on purpose. Interestingly, when we do PREDICT and speculate what the likely or required consequences of a Big Bang would be, we then, voila, do indeed, find the predicted consequences. Pretty strong evidence.
12. The faker Intelligent Design argument falls on it’s own logical face, in requiring an ever-more intelligent being to create such vast complexity. Who then, designed Him? And who designed that designer? You cannot simply stop at a point of convenience and mutter that “God works in mysterious ways!”
Such an argument is, simply put, irrational. It's only value? It's convenient, and requires no further thoughts or curiosity.
13. The insistence by public school educators in adding a non-scientific agenda to science classes. Their frantic fear of having young open minds exposed to rational, logical critical thinking is patently apparent in their dramatic efforts to censure scientific thinking. Of course, ID is a now-proven hoax, intended to masquerade it as “science”, which, by definition, it is not. Such a response from the fundamentalist Christian educators is proof of their fears about honest, open curiosity.
__________________________________________
Just a few of these lines of rational reasoning, if proven to be fact, throw significant doubts on the entire biblical story and indeed on Christianity itself. I know several Christians who now completely agree with the scientific evidence behind each of these facts, but say that’s not necessary to their belief.
I disagree.
If all or most of the basic tenets of a mythical belief system are systematically disproved, one must accept that the entire system is but a figment of wishful thinking.
Oh, there will be some YECer along shortly trying to say goddunit, and bring up such lame garbage as hydroplaining continents, fake Ica stones, and prehistorica lasers.
I know several Christians who now completely agree with the scientific evidence behind each of these facts, but say that’s not necessary to their belief.
I disagree.
That's nice for you, I guess, but meaningless for anyone else. You have no authority to tell people what's necessary or unnecessary in their religion. Pope Pius XII spoke of the Universe being billions of years old and Charles Darwin was never put on the Index. Orthodoxy never had a set position on these issues either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
If all or most of the basic tenets of a mythical belief system are systematically disproved, one must accept that the entire system is but a figment of wishful thinking.
QED.
To place the Pentateuch, and maybe a few other bits, as "all or most" of Christianity is deeply flawed.
Besides which there are plenty of economic or philosophical treatises that contain flaws, but aren't thrown out altogether. Even in math proofs sometimes need fine-tuning.
Basically what you're doing is saying that only a certain kind of Christianity is validly Christian so you can invalidate it and then invalidate Christianity. It's an interesting trick, but doesn't do what you want it to do.
That's nice for you, I guess, but meaningless for anyone else.
I doubt it. Too many people see that the entirety of Christianity is based on 1) mythical people doing fantastic and impossible things, created in the minds of very imaginative authors. 2) a near-manic fear of death that requires a post-death heaven. Makes for easy pickings when you offer a system that guarantees a heavenly destination but only if you devote your life (and 10% of your income...) to an organization that lays the groundrules for entrance after your inevitable death. Pay Per Access, so to speak. The most amazing thing about it remains how literally millions of death-fearing hominids have bought in to it, but fortunately that is a fading phenom.
Thank god for critical thinking and scientific education.
You have no authority to tell people what's necessary or unnecessary in their religion.
Not trying to. just saying that if it's all built on fantasy, it must thus be a construct of same.
Besides which there are plenty of economic or philosophical treatises that contain flaws, but aren't thrown out altogether. Even in math proofs sometimes need fine-tuning.
But none claim to be "the inerrant truth". Pretty big britches to be filled, and extraordinary claims demand extra-ordinary proofs. There Christianity fails, and falls, on it's face. And this is hardly going unnoticed.
Basically what you're doing is saying that only a certain kind of Christianity is validly Christian so you can invalidate it and then invalidate Christianity. It's an interesting trick, but doesn't do what you want it to do.
Nope Bad assessment. You hope to deny, as is typical. Nothing in Christianity is valid except personal decisions to believe in the face of growing proofs to the contrary. I simply acknowledged that some Christians who still can't bear to deny it in their lives fully realize that all of its tenets fail on close logical examination. That is not intellectually honest. Others stick to it with ferocious tenacity. Especially, as MontanaGuy notes, the YEC contingent, who are, yessirree, the most logically bereft and rationally egregious Christians afoot.
Question. Requires an Honest Answer: How many folks would remain Christian if the Church now denied the existance of heaven, or who said they had no influence on whether you would end up there?
1-3: Only relevant to a specific kind of Christianity.
4: Some merit, but assumes facts that are highly disputed. The efforts to make Christianity seem like a copy of pagan religion are largely drawn from unreliable Theosophist who had an agenda of finding commonality among religions. So far as I know Herakles et alia were not preaching a message of loving your enemy and honoring the meek or downtrodden.
5-8: Again mostly describing a narrow form of Evangelical Protestantism. Jesus as God is something you dislike or find silly, but your personal taste is evidence of nothing.
9: Bordering on UFOlogy. In any event the Bible is the story of God's relationship to Man it does not preclude other beings. (Medieval Christians believed there might be Cynocephalia in Asia and poet Alice Meynell wrote of other worlds. Swedenborg even claimed to go to them)
10-12: Again mostly an argument against specific kinds of creationism. Not very good arguments I must say as they're largely based in personal taste or emotional concerns. (Ockham's Razor is often poorly understood. Also your emotional need for things to be logical and simple as possible is not evidence of anything)
In the new post
1) mythical people doing fantastic and impossible things, created in the minds of very imaginative authors.
This is again opinion masquerading as fact. You believe certain people are mythical and you don't believe certain things can happen. Well that's certainly a valid position. You've shown that when you dismiss something as real you've dismissed it as real. Amazing!
It also shows a certain narrowness of vision as even secular history has fantastic and improbable events or people. How do you deal with that? Jefferson and Adams both dying July 4 of the same year. Or the "divine winds" destroying the Mongol fleet. Or Joan of Arc or Genghiz Khan or Euler or Jacques Piccard or what have you.
2) a near-manic fear of death that requires a post-death heaven.
The fear of death is likely just part of being human. If you see a "near-manic fear" it's because that's what you want to see. A belief in an afterlife may well date to the Cro-Magnon era and does not necessarily denote any kind of mania. Likewise I'm sure many theists see "a near-manic fear of death" in all the healthy-living stuff many secular/non-theistic people get into. Or in groups like the extropians, cryogenicists, etc.
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What you meant to say......
