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Back in the early 80s when I was just a young kid in church, I remembered that the great fear amongst some fundamentalist circles was the Soviet Union and a United Europe and a one world government. Supposedly (again), Jesus was coming soon and signs were being fulfilled.
The scriptures fundamentalists were all over themselves about was Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. They claimed these ancient passages foretold the Soviet Union and an invasion they would launch against Israel on "horses" and with "bows and arrows, javelins and spears." Fundamentalists believed this invasion was inevitable and would occur in the 80s. This paranoia was in part fueled by Hal Lindsay's wildly popular pro-Christian book, The Late Great Planet Earth which took all kinds of interpretive license on the book of Revelation.
Part of the what the book of Revelation speaks about is persecution and during the mid to late 70s into the 80s, there was no shortage of testimonies of Christians [allegedly] being persecuted in the Soviet Union and China. Here were these big, bad, evil atheistic Communist countries supposedly trying to wipe out the bible, the name of god and his followers as well as the "Christian nation" known as America. The image of the suffering Christian, locked away for his faith, was made even more popular through the experience of the famous Russian dramatist and historian, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. He was imprisoned in 1945 NOT for his Christian faith, but for threats against the state. He, however, converted to Christianity in prison and wrote some of his work through a Christian worldview.
Needless to say, the Soviet Union did not invade Israel and the Union fell part. Mikhail Gorbechev did not turn out to be the anti-Christ as some thought either. All the hoopla surrounding the fulfillment of the Soviet Union invading Israel was quietly shoved under a rug. There was nothing to talk about again until Saddam Hussein and Iraq (Babylon) started acting up. This led to talk about a revived Babylon (supposedly predicted in the Bible also) but we all know how that has ended.
30 years later, there is talk once again about this thing called socialism which has been made synonymous with Communism and I believe it is creating pictures in the minds of some Christians of imprisoned believers locked away in prison for their faith. As in the 80s, there is talk in some Christian churches about dark days ahead for Christians when evil people will "take away their freedoms" which includes their freedom to read or have a bible or even from something as remote as the perceived threat of gay unions. They believe they will be persecuted for their faith by the government and that some will even have to die for their faith as the early Christians supposedly did as as some Christians are enduring in other countries today.
Just because it hasn't happened yet does not mean it won't happen at all.
However, such persecution springing from socialism or communism seems unlikely at this point. It seems far more likely to be rooted in the style of American Facism we've been practicing, and foisting upon the world, for the past 30 years or so.
Last edited by stillkit; 10-07-2009 at 04:22 AM..
Reason: More
Back in the early 80s when I was just a young kid in church, I remembered that the great fear amongst some fundamentalist circles was the Soviet Union and a United Europe and a one world government. Supposedly (again), Jesus was coming soon and signs were being fulfilled.
The scriptures fundamentalists were all over themselves about was Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. They claimed these ancient passages foretold the Soviet Union and an invasion they would launch against Israel on "horses" and with "bows and arrows, javelins and spears." Fundamentalists believed this invasion was inevitable and would occur in the 80s. This paranoia was in part fueled by Hal Lindsay's wildly popular pro-Christian book, The Late Great Planet Earth which took all kinds of interpretive license on the book of Revelation.
Part of the what the book of Revelation speaks about is persecution and during the mid to late 70s into the 80s, there was no shortage of testimonies of Christians [allegedly] being persecuted in the Soviet Union and China. Here were these big, bad, evil atheistic Communist countries supposedly trying to wipe out the bible, the name of god and his followers as well as the "Christian nation" known as America. The image of the suffering Christian, locked away for his faith, was made even more popular through the experience of the famous Russian dramatist and historian, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. He was imprisoned in 1945 NOT for his Christian faith, but for threats against the state. He, however, converted to Christianity in prison and wrote some of his work through a Christian worldview.
Needless to say, the Soviet Union did not invade Israel and the Union fell part. Mikhail Gorbechev did not turn out to be the anti-Christ as some thought either. All the hoopla surrounding the fulfillment of the Soviet Union invading Israel was quietly shoved under a rug. There was nothing to talk about again until Saddam Hussein and Iraq (Babylon) started acting up. This led to talk about a revived Babylon (supposedly predicted in the Bible also) but we all know how that has ended.
30 years later, there is talk once again about this thing called socialism which has been made synonymous with Communism and I believe it is creating pictures in the minds of some Christians of imprisoned believers locked away in prison for their faith. As in the 80s, there is talk in some Christian churches about dark days ahead for Christians when evil people will "take away their freedoms" which includes their freedom to read or have a bible or even from something as remote as the perceived threat of gay unions. They believe they will be persecuted for their faith by the government and that some will even have to die for their faith as the early Christians supposedly did as as some Christians are enduring in other countries today.
The anti-Christ is always the next guy
Hitler, Stalin, Kennedy, Nixon, Gorbachev, Clinton, Obama, Osama, Saddam, need I continue?
Doomsday is always the next one to.
The problem with a vague prophecy, written by a crazy man living in a cave, tripping on mushrooms, is that you can read into them anything you want. It can fit any situation, this is why Nostradamus appears to be prophetic, but his quatraines are vague as well.
I have a suggestion. For all of the people that believe that Christ is going to return on December 21st, 2012, or believe its the end of the world, need to get together and just drink the Kool-aid.
I'll be here with the rest of the damned on December 22nd, 2012, getting on with our lives.
I'm with Memphis.. the "prophecies" are so vague that you can literally flip them into being anything. And it's sort of like astrology, if anybody's seen that episode of Penn & Teller's Moderator cut: deleted - inappropriate language Our minds are kind of hardwired to remember what was right, and forget what wasn't.. So yeah, one vague prophecy might be twisted enough that we can say "Oh look, it was fulfilled!" but then what about the 100s of others that we can't do that with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson
I looked for atheist charities and found none.
Is this post off topic? Yes.
Christian prophetess Charlene Ramirez in 1989 in her book, "God is Speaking Now" said concerning New York, "I see a vision of a jet approaching a tall building, then my vision ended. I don't know what that means."
Socialists never give up! Look how far Obama was able to get people into the spread the wealth mentality. And look how far the anti-religious have come in trying to label religious morals as hate speech.
Socialists never give up! Look how far Obama was able to get people into the spread the wealth mentality. And look how far the anti-religious have come in trying to label religious morals as hate speech.
Interesting, because from what I have learned, the religious right need no label from the anti-religous, as hate is the basis of their doctrines. Consider this: Growing up in a Fundy church in Texas, we were taught to hate....we were taught to hate Jews because they killed Jesus and rejected him. We were taught to hate balck people because Satan himself was dark and had black skin (God of course, was white) We also were taught to hate Mexicans because they were mostly catholics (Who were also on the list) not to mention being poor and lazy and responsible for half the crime in the state (The black populace being the other half)
We were told that our great enemy was Communism, that over half of the world was communist, under "Satan's Grip" and just waiting to come and get us.
Of course, our enlightened pastor, "The preacher" as he was called by the adults in the congregation, claimed that as he had interpreted the book of Revelation, the apocalypse would come when the soviet union and all of the communist world would launch a conventional war against Israel, and Israel would win. This was of course, something he calimed the rest of us did not know because we did not read the Bible enough, and according to him, this would happen "Any day now"
This was a few years before he abruptly quit one Sunday, the greatest Sunday of my life, when he announced that he had been called to do missionary work. We never saw or heard from him again, but years later found out the story of why his daughter really ran away from home, and we suspect, why he quit so suddenly......
I always thought it interesting that war and conflict come from something so asinine as religious ideaology. The "religious Morals" or "God's Rights" Which lead Christians into hatred and racism, which inspire Al-Qieda to attack innocent people, which enabled Israel to murder children on the West Bank, have made me realize that not just ideology, but freedom is an issue.
I have never felt so free since I left Christianity, free from the bondage of myth, superstition, fear, legalism, racism and bigotry, free of passing judgement on every human who says HI to me in passing or walks into my practice for help. Free of the myths of heaven or hell and yes free of socialism.
It would seem that there is a lot of finger pointing and whining going on in society right now. Sorry if I don't have time to participate in it, but I am actually busy making money instead.
not turn off your computer and GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!!
Socialists never give up! Look how far Obama was able to get people into the spread the wealth mentality. And look how far the anti-religious have come in trying to label religious morals as hate speech.
I "hate" to break it to you but a major chunk of religious morals ARE indeed hate speech. Religious "morals" are basically the codified prejudices, phobias and bigotries of the men who created them.
Oh and BTW, Socialism/communism and the "spread the wealth" mentality were at the root of Christian church. The book of Acts has two explicit passages depicting the very communistic nature of the early Christian community:
All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
(Acts 2:44-45)
There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
(Acts 4:34-37)
Immediately following this second passage is a very interesting story about a couple, Ananias and Sapphira, who sold a piece of property but only gave the community a portion of the proceeds, keeping some of it for themselves. When Peter confronts them with this, they both fall down and die - leaving the impression that they were struck dead.
Killing bourgeoisie land owners who fail to give all of their money to the community? That’s not merely communism, that’s Stalinism.
Most Christians however, simply ignore the above passages - just as they ignore so much else which is politically or morally inconvenient.
People of any background can hate, not just Christians. The worst haters in world history were atheist leaders. Stalin, the Soviet Union's leader, (1927-1953) perhaps had killed directly and indirectly 20 million people. Mao Ze Dong who was China's first Communist leader, from 1949 to 1976, may have contributed to the murder, starvation, executions, and exterminations of 50 million individuals.
When you say, "Fundies," or "Fundamentalists," who are you talking about? Fundamentalist atheists, fundamentalist Muslims, fundamentalist Democrats, christians? Who are you talking about? The christians are not the only ones who have fundamentalists in their ranks. Their "fundamentalists may be the least violent, or at least, rhetorical of the bunch.
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