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I'm new, and I didn't take the time to read all posts, so I don't know if what I have to say has been said.
Welcome.
Quote:
I talked to an atheist once. I asked him if we were ultimately going to create our own version of "life." He said yes. I asked him if we were going to create a utopia, and how were we going to get our children to appreciate that utopia. After a while, I got the atheist to admit we need certain elements which amazingly resemble the elements of religion.
If you wish for me to elaborate, or you wish to continue, please respond.
After 8 months of being an infantryman in Vietnam I was invited to be a chaplain's assistant because of my adherence to religious beliefs.
I was painting the chapel one day, while the chaplain was either in the field, or on R&R. A soldier wandered onto the site, and offered to help.
While we worked, we got to talking, of course, and I soon learned that the man was an atheist. Soon after learning this fact, it occurred to me to ask a series of questions:
“So you believe that all power is in Man.”
“Yes.”
“Do you believe that some day Mankind will be able to create life?—from scratch?”
“Yes.”
“Humans?”
“Yes.”
“Will Mankind be able to create a Utopia in which to put these creations?”
“Of course.”
Everyone who toured Vietnam as a soldier knew very well the concept of “appreciation;” None of us appreciated the life we lived, until we saw life in Vietnam. Clarifying that he understood this, I asked the next question:
“How is man going to get his created children to appreciate this Utopia?”
He thought a moment, then said, “They’ll have to create a miserable place first, and put them there.”
“Should the children know of the existence of their creators?”
“No. That would make them want to be with them.”
“Should the children be made to work for their final reward?”
“Oh, yes; to create a feeling of victory and ownership [or something like that].”
We live in a miserable place (compared to what we perceive as a utopia), we have forgotten life with our creator(s), and all food we eat is with the sweat of our face (a term found in Genesis).
We were interrupted (some type of alert) so we didn't finish our conversation. But what I'm saying is religion seems to be philosophically sound, unless you can philosophically tear it down, in which case I'd be interested in that.
For someone your age, I applaud you for your ability to express yourself with your writing.
When I was 15, 20, 25, 30 and so on, I had different views.
Like you, I also liked to see some "proof" for things.
I would recommend you reading C.S. Lewis, the author if Chronicles of Narnia.
He was a DEVOUT atheist and wrote a book called Mere Christianity, you can get a used version on Amazon for under $5.
Having always been open-minded, as you seem to be, I think that you will find some other viewpoints here that are convincing.
Also, someone recommended Case for Creator, very technical in its representation, but you sound like you would be able to comprehend it well, it took me awhile, then I rented the DVD and found it easier.
Remember to keep an open mind about everything in life. Blessings,
Whoah whoah now...a real person posted that...a real person with real feelings. Don't call him "out there". He was flat-out honest and very open. (Yes, this IS JerZ saying this. ) This theory is no more out-there than saying some dude came to life after being dead for three days or walked on water. And on the other end of the spectrum, no more out-there than saying we are literally a random act, even with all our diversity and complexity.
ETA: I admit I was VERY surprised by the theory because it was one I'd never heard of before, but really, I was surprised more by the fact that people didn't question it or jump on it or whatever...I mean you know this forum. I thought that must mean it was something very very unusual and didn't realize it was a well-known religion like LDS.
ALL our beliefs are "out there" in some way, foks.
I like to debate religion as much as the next person, maybe even more so in many cases, but I don't think you can designate Mormons a "cult" based on this supernatural idea. ALL religions have a supernatural basis.
Not trying to p*ss you off, just sayin'.
Awesome, Jerz!
It amazes me how one silly group can get away with ignorant comments and beliefs, but if another group posts their own they are humiliated. As if their own beliefs aren't wacky enough.
If you're going to use that logic, then, where did your god come from? After all, he had "to come from something".
I'm sure that you will get an answer that will go something like:
'God has always been there!!'
Christianity finds that god "always "being there" a perfectly acceptable and logical theory but has great difficulty in accepting that the matter that formed the universe has "always been there".......but I suppose it works in reverse too!
[quote=MOVIN-n-012;717207]2. Conservation of mass-energy (energy can neither be created nor destroyed, thus no need for a Creator)
I don't think "Creator" means "Create from nothing." I think it means assemble. It seems that "the waters" were already existing before "God" started his creation: In Gen. 1:2, which seems to be an introduction, it says the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. In subsequent verses, it mentions water, again, without saying God created it. Then, in verse 9, it doesn't say God created the dry land; it says "let the dry land appear." Later, God "planted" a garden eastward in Eden. To me, this is evidence that "God" used existing materials.
After 8 months of being an infantryman in Vietnam I was invited to be a chaplain's assistant because of my adherence to religious beliefs.
I was painting the chapel one day, while the chaplain was either in the field, or on R&R. A soldier wandered onto the site, and offered to help.
While we worked, we got to talking, of course, and I soon learned that the man was an atheist. Soon after learning this fact, it occurred to me to ask a series of questions:
“So you believe that all power is in Man.”
“Yes.”
“Do you believe that some day Mankind will be able to create life?—from scratch?”
“Yes.”
“Humans?”
“Yes.”
“Will Mankind be able to create a Utopia in which to put these creations?”
“Of course.”
Everyone who toured Vietnam as a soldier knew very well the concept of “appreciation;” None of us appreciated the life we lived, until we saw life in Vietnam. Clarifying that he understood this, I asked the next question:
“How is man going to get his created children to appreciate this Utopia?”
He thought a moment, then said, “They’ll have to create a miserable place first, and put them there.”
“Should the children know of the existence of their creators?”
“No. That would make them want to be with them.”
“Should the children be made to work for their final reward?”
“Oh, yes; to create a feeling of victory and ownership [or something like that].”
We live in a miserable place (compared to what we perceive as a utopia), we have forgotten life with our creator(s), and all food we eat is with the sweat of our face (a term found in Genesis).
We were interrupted (some type of alert) so we didn't finish our conversation. But what I'm saying is religion seems to be philosophically sound, unless you can philosophically tear it down, in which case I'd be interested in that.
[quote=GenesisNemesis;716563]Hello, my name is Jacob, and I'm only fifteen years old. I'm an Atheist, which means I don't believe in a Supreme Being (but you probably knew that). My reasons? The evidence for a Supreme Being is flimsy.
1. Problem of Evil (why is there suffering, death, etc.)
2. Conservation of mass-energy (energy can neither be created nor destroyed, thus no need for a Creator)
3. The Evidence of Evolution (vestigial structures, abiogenesis experiments, the Fossil Record, continental drift)
4. Age of The Earth and the Universe (radiometric dating, speed of light [186,000 miles per second, studies have shown this to be a constant speed, see http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE411.html])
5. No good answer to the Purpose of Life (the "best" one I've heard is that God made us because He was lonely )
A while back, I was a New-Ager. I accepted everything without evidence. I believed in Ghosts, Demons, UFO's, you name it. Though I'm not sure if I ever really believed in a Guy-In-The-Sky. I always thought of Him as an "Inner Power" in our hearts, a way to find strength.
One night, I was watching T.V., and a comedian was talking about a "theory" called Intelligent Design. He was a critic of it. So, I went to see what all the fuss was about. I searched the internet. I found these videos Does God Exist? - Google Video (the ones by John Clayton), then quickly found the concept of Creationism on one of the videos. So, I searched for Creationism, and found a man named Kent Hovind. His arguments were convincing, since I had no way to counter them. So, I searched for Kent Hovind, and found this site Kent Hovind - Analysis of Kent Hovind (Dr Dino) . It provided a point-by-point refutation and analysis of everything Kent Hovind said. It astonished me. How could a person take the time and do all of this? I wanted to do that. I wanted to be like that. I wanted to question everything. My teen spirit was kicking in. I quickly adopted the viewpoint.
So, why am I an Atheist? I have no reason to believe that a Supreme Being is so anal that he will send me to a fiery Hell just because I have different brain activity than all of His minions. I have no reason to believe in Demons, Ghosts, or UFO's anymore, other than the comforting feeling that there's supernatural stuff "out there", just as you have no reason to believe in gods such as Zeus or Poseidon. I've tossed all of that away, and now I have more than I could ever have asked for than I could've had from God. But hey, this is just my opinion.
Pablo Bee wrote:
So, why am I an Atheist? I have no reason to believe that a Supreme Being is so anal that he will send me to a fiery Hell just because I have different brain activity than all of His minions.
No one can prove that Christianity is the force it says it is. No one can prove that Jesus is the only path back to God. No one can prove that the Bible is accurate in what it reports, as far as salvation of the soul is concerned. No one can likewise give positive proof that any other religion provides a path back to "God." If anyone can scientifically prove the above, I'll give him/her 1,000 dollars. Therefore, one can't know if our "Supreme Being" will send a person to Hell just because he/she thinks or behaves differently than the laws outlined by that same being, or his/her minions.
So . . . . by the same standards, one can't know that there is no God. If a person closes his/her mind completely to the possibility that God exists, then it seems to me that this person "knows" something that has been proven, or knows something that I don't know.
So . . . is there something else you wish to share with us that we don't know about?
-- Sam
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) This theory is no more out-there than saying some dude came to life after being dead for three days or walked on water. And on the other end of the spectrum, no more out-there than saying we are literally a random act, even with all our diversity and complexity.
Conservation of Mass and Energy
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