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If there has to be a beginning then where did God begin?
Or if God never technically began becaue he "has always been here," then it's not true that there has to be a beginning.
This is one of the things that to me is evidence for God because it indicates to me that somewhere along the line something existed that was....and this is mind-boggling...UNCAUSED! It is easier for me to believe therefore, that God existed and I don't understand Him than just some particle of matter or enzyme somewhere? Does this make any sense?
Not to me. I am not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I am really interested in your thoughts here.
For me, it is easier to accept that matter, in some form, has always existed, and for some reason, one day it started to expand.
God seems to be such a complex, complicated thing, existing outside of time or matter. How did this come to be? Highly organized, self aware, omni---. And then one day, on a whim, he decides to create a universe? Why not the day before? Or the 100 quadrillion years before?
To me, it seems that our ignorance (yours, mine, everybodys) of the state of things at the beginning of time is pretty much complete. The difference is that you have a very complicated way of explaining it.
Not to me. I am not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I am really interested in your thoughts here.
For me, it is easier to accept that matter, in some form, has always existed, and for some reason, one day it started to expand.
God seems to be such a complex, complicated thing, existing outside of time or matter. How did this come to be? Highly organized, self aware, omni---. And then one day, on a whim, he decides to create a universe? Why not the day before? Or the 100 quadrillion years before?
To me, it seems that our ignorance (yours, mine, everybodys) of the state of things at the beginning of time is pretty much complete. The difference is that you have a very complicated way of explaining it.
Well, that stance is certainly valid. If anything I think it shows that there IS "something" outside our ability to understand it. To me that "something" is the Creator, not a dust particle.
Remember...as a Christian, this isn't the ONLY reason I believe in God.
This is one of the things that to me is evidence for God because it indicates to me that somewhere along the line something existed that was....and this is mind-boggling...UNCAUSED! It is easier for me to believe therefore, that God existed and I don't understand Him than just some particle of matter or enzyme somewhere? Does this make any sense?
It may seem like a simpler answer that "God did it", but that just leads to more questions which are ultimately unanswerable.
Religion
-------
Q: How did the universe come to be?
A: God created it.
Q: Who created God?
A: No one...he just always existed.
Q: Where did he come from?
A: Nowhere...he just always existed.
Q: Where does he live?
A: He's omni-present. He everywhere and all-knowing.
Q: How does he do that?
A: He's God.
Q: What did he do before the universe was created?
A: Only God knows, and he's not telling us.
Q: Why did he create the universe?
A: Only God knows, and he's not telling us.
Science
--------
Q: How did the universe come to be?
A: There is evidence that the universe is expanding. For example, the farther a star is away from us, the more red-shifted the light becomes. The only way this could happen is if the universe is expanding, or the laws of physics are changing. And scientists have been searching for any proof that the laws of physics are not constant over long timescales, and have not found any. So the most logical conclusion is that the universe originated as a single point and has been expanding ever since. We call this the 'Big Bang'.
Q: What existed before the Big Bang?
A: This question is meaningless. Space-time itself began with the Big Bang, so there is no 'before' the Big Bang.
At the very least, the scientific answers are based on all physical evidence which has been gathered throughout the ages, and not the words of a single book.
To me, it seems that our ignorance (yours, mine, everybodys) of the state of things at the beginning of time is pretty much complete. The difference is that you have a very complicated way of explaining it.
Funny, I always thought that evolution was more complicated of an explaination, as to the origin of life, than to think of a Creator putting it all together, (and I don't necessarily mean Creator in the Christian sense. Many people, of different ethnic groups and beliefs, believe in a Creator). Personally, I prefer to think that someone had a hand in all of it, than to think that we are the product of some one-celled animals that somehow managed to get smart enough to crawl up out of the ooze, and and start changing. Of course, the Creator may well have used evolution, (although, that's certainly not very flattering), to eventually create us from those one-celled animals, but at least we could say that there was somekind of planning and forethought, where our appearance on this earth was concerned. So, even if the theory of evolution is proven as fact, that doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility of a Creator getting the ball rolling, so to speak, (at least, in my humble opinion).
Last edited by CelticLady1; 05-15-2007 at 03:55 PM..
Q: What existed before the Big Bang?
A: This question is meaningless. Space-time itself began with the Big Bang, so there is no 'before' the Big Bang.
At the very least, the scientific answers are based on all physical evidence which has been gathered throughout the ages, and not the words of a single book.
Q: What existed before the Big Bang?
A:God.
See he did the big bang.
Funny, I always thought that evolution was more complicated of an explaination, as to the origin of life, than to think of a Creator putting it all together,
But we were talking about the origin of the universe, not the origin of life. Evolution has nothing to say about the origin of the universe. It is strictly a biological science, not a cosmological science.
The 'Big Bang' was not the start of this Universe....but the end of a previous one. It has always been happening. After the 'bang', the universe is thrown apart, the particles of the explosion (planets, stars etc) moving away from each other as we know is happening now. In time, the particles loose their momentum from the explosion and start to head back into the vacuum caused by the explosion with such velocity that they come together with such a mighty crash that it causes another 'big bang'.....and the whole thing starts again. Thus it has always been and always will be!! Huh! Huh! How about it??..........OK! I'll shut up.
But we were talking about the origin of the universe, not the origin of life. Evolution has nothing to say about the origin of the universe. It is strictly a biological science, not a cosmological science.
Well, then I am confused! (Big surprise there). Aren't the origin of the universe and the origin of life one and the same, (i.e how everything came to be), or at the very least, tightly intertwined? Because when people talk about the Big Bang, they try to use that to say that there is no Creator. So, is there a possibility of a Creator, in either case, (well actually, I think so)? See, I told you I'm confused. If you can explain the difference to me, you'd be doing something!
Q: What existed before the Big Bang?
A:God.
See he did the big bang.
And do you have any evidence of this?
God has been used to explain the unexplanable throughout the ages, until science comes along and provides a natural explanation. God has been used to explain rainbows, rain, droughts, seasons, etc. And at first, those natural explanations have been considered blasphemous (Galileo anyone?). In fact, even the idea of the big bang was considered blasphemous until very recently when the evidence has become overwhelming. And at that point, religious doctrine changes to incorporate the previously blasphemous idea (e.g. God used evolution as a tool to create humans, God caused the big bang)
The cause of the big bang is no different. In fact, there are already several existing hypotheses about what caused the big bang, but none have been unequivocally proven yet.....but give them time.
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), to eventually create us from those one-celled animals, but at least we could say that there was some kind of planning and forethought, where our appearance on this earth was concerned.
).
