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I think there's actually a large number of Christians who are strong defenders of the state of Israel as well as the Jewish faith.
I do believe you're right. Of course, they're not defending the State of Israel or the Jewish faith out of love, or Christian charity, or whatever they call it. They're defending 'em because they believe Jews in Israel somehow fit into their scheme of things. The name of the game is self interest. As in, Christians looking out for Christians.
And speaking as one of those people of the Jewish faith...the idea that Christians are "defending" me goes pretty well past the border of condescension. I don't want their "defense." What I want is for them to mind their own business.
I do believe you're right. Of course, they're not defending the State of Israel or the Jewish faith out of love, or Christian charity, or whatever they call it. They're defending 'em because they believe Jews in Israel somehow fit into their scheme of things. The name of the game is self interest. As in, Christians looking out for Christians.
And speaking as one of those people of the Jewish faith...the idea that Christians are "defending" me goes pretty well past the border of condescension. I don't want their "defense." What I want is for them to mind their own business.
Fred,
It may be the case that some pro-Israeli Christians care nothing about Jews and are promoting only a selfish "end times" agenda, but this is not the case universally.
I have two Orthodox Jewish friends with whom I often engage in religious discussion, and it was one of them who pointed out to me, at length and with sheer gratitude, the vast numbers of Christians who actively defend Israel with a sincere agenda, and do not proselytize. There is a Catholic nun whose name escapes me who has made it her entire life's work--in addition to political activism, she is also a scholar of Jewish history.
I don't have the links at hand of all these different groups--they were deleted when my older computer crashed. Here is one such group, however:
Israel is under attack all over the world--Antisemitism is on the rise everywhere. I am a proud "defender" of that small nation, and if you find that borderline condescending--well, tough. The Jews I know personally don't (in fact, quite the opposite), and we share a warm friendship based on many things, not least of which is a strong mutual concern for the well-being of Israel.
Jerry Falwell (spelling?) and other conservatives actually threw in with Rev Moon when he was being sued over church state issues. You might say the whole fundy defense of Israel is a long running example. And the liberal side of christians defending everything from abortion, gays, that guy in Tibet, civil rights, etc, etc , etc. Some of the liberal side even defended communism (the religion of the state). There is a lot of it, just look past the end of your nose.
Religions don't defend freedom of belief - people of conscience (of all stripes) do that.
Great comment!
This is true from my perspective. A friend's parents are Oral Roberts-type Christians. They accept my friend being Gay, although it's not their wish for their son, and they accept me, as his friend, being a Pagan and a Witch. Their congregation would not do as much, but they are the kind of Christians I wish all Christians were.
I believe that more Christians are willing to defend the Abrahamic faiths, but when you get outside of that system; Hindu, Pagan, Buddhist, etc., it becomes increasingly more difficult to find those willing to stand up. It does happen, but less so.
Have Christians Ever Defended Any Other Religion's Rights?
Christians often like to use phrases like "religious freedoms", but, beneath the surface they only mean christian rights. Exclusively. I think that christians would be the first to trample upon the rights of any other religion.
IMHO...
Individual Christians might fight for the rights of others.
But as an institution, Christianity would see only their rights preserved, and their relgiion superimosed onto society.
I do believe you're right. Of course, they're not defending the State of Israel or the Jewish faith out of love, or Christian charity, or whatever they call it. They're defending 'em because they believe Jews in Israel somehow fit into their scheme of things. The name of the game is self interest. As in, Christians looking out for Christians.
I agree that the example of defending Jewish interests may not be valid because to many Christians they are seen as 'God's people' much in the same way Christians view themselves. Plus there's the selfish motive of believing "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you".
Religious freedom is basically a human rights issue, so people who believe in universal human rights will generally do the correct thing regarding others people's right to believe what they wish.
But remember, most Christians (CUs notwithstanding) think all who don't follow the instructions in the Bible have a one way ticket to eternal misery. Naturally then they will strive to make all others become as they believe they are (ie: eternally blessed).
So far...
Not much of substance. Socially acceptable posts. Wonderful virtues, enough to get one all bleary eyed at the goodness.
When creating this thread I considered writing Judeo-Christianity, assuming that posters would point out instances of Christians defending Jews. However, aren't Christianity and the Jewish religion very similar?
I was wondering if anyone can point out any instances where Christians have defended the rights of other religions, like Islam, Hinduism, etc.
They are polar opposites. One is based on the core belief that a Messiah has come, and the other believes that none has come but is coming someday. They do have the same early roots, but so does Islam.
I don't want to get into the whole long drawn-out "were the founding fathers Christian or Deist" thing, but since the majority of the population was Christian at the founding of this country and freedom of religion was incorporated into the basics, I'd say yes.
Further, look at all the interreligious groups that have formed since 2001 to foster better understanding and work together for social justice. Christians are part of that, so yes, they have defended Islam.
Yes, read George Washington's letter to the Jews of Newport RI in 1790.
"The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens."
They are polar opposites. One is based on the core belief that a Messiah has come, and the other believes that none has come but is coming someday. They do have the same early roots, but so does Islam.
I disagree--they are very, very similar.
As the great Will Herberg explains about the "Hebraic Religions":
Quote:
...the higher religions of mankind fall into two main groups distinguished by widely different, often diametrically opposed preonceptions and attitudes. One group we may quite properly call Hebraic, for it includes Judaism, Christanity and Islam. The other group consists....of the "soteric religions and philosophies of India and of Greece and the native and foreign mysteries of the Hellenistic-Roman world."....Buddhism and Yoga are its best-known modern representatives....
Hebraic and Grego-Oriental religion, as religion, agree in affirming some Absolute Reality as ultimate, but they differ fundamentally in what they say about this reality. To Greco-Oriental thought, whether mystical or philosophical, the ultimate reality is some primal impersonal force....
Nothing could be further from normative Hebraic religion. To Hebraic religion, God is neither a metaphysical principle nor an impersonal force. God is a living Will, a "living, active Being....endowed with personality." As against the Greco-Oriental conception of immanence, of divinity permeating all things and constituting their reality, Hebraic religion affirms God as a transcendant Person, who has indeed created the universe but who cannot without blasphemy be identified with it. The absolute transcendence of God is the foundation of Hebrew religious thought.....God is not in sun and stars, rain and wind; they are his creatures and serve him....
To the Hebraic mind....the empirical world is real and significant, though not of course self-subsistent since it is ultimately dependent on God as Creator....this world, the world in which we pass our lives, the world in which history is enacted, the world of time and change and confusion, is the world in which the divine Will is operative and in which, however strange it may seem, man encounters God. Depreciation of this world in favor of some timeless world of pure being or essence is utterly out of line with the realistic temper of Hebraism.
-- from "Judaism and Modern Man"
Also see "Salvation is from the Jews" by Ray Schoemann.
We shouldn't have to. Everybody fight for themselves. WE fight for what WE know is right. Everybody else can do the same. But we shouldn't have to fight for the Allah-lovers, or the Buddha (aka fata**)-lovers, or the atheists, with their Science and Logic: we fight for God and Jesus Christ.
Last edited by scottmac112; 12-11-2009 at 12:09 PM..
Reason: bad grammar
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