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Old 01-17-2010, 11:50 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,186,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
It cannot be assumed that all events are "part of God's plan". (implication: something bad happened. God did it) Example: it cannot be assumed that the quake in Haiti (oops, sorry...Caribbean), was planned or preordained by God. It was allowed to happen. The Bible says that Satan is "the god of this world", hence a lot of bad things that happen (like damaging earthquakes) can be attributed to Satan...not God. God allows a lot of bad stuff to happen, but this does not mean that He caused it. Therefore, prayer is beneficial to overcome the evil caused by Satan...


Bud
Yet Jehovah, by a huge margin, kills more people in the bible than your Satan does.

And in any court-of-law, if Jehovah has the means to stop such a crime as a "mass murder" of an earthquake, then he is just as guilty as the perpetrator.

Of course, this is ignoring the simply fact that the writters of your scriptures, not to mention many people today, don't understand geology and/or plate tectonics.

Pretending, for the moment, that your gods are real and your bible isn't a poorly written fantasy novel, there is only one reason for Jehovah not to stop Satan from killing so many people in a natural disaster, and that is to force people to pray to him.

Quite arrogant, self-centered, and egotistic.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Vermont
7,824 posts, read 4,896,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
I did give a high level view to the "theodicy problem":

From a Christian point of view, the fact that God "foresees" all things does not mean that he "causes" them or "ordains" them. Knowing that something is going to happen is not the same thing as "causing" it to happen.

How does this apply to your bridge example? Your example is relevant but not quite on point. A faulty bridge does not "choose" to collapse. Humans, by contrast, have FREE WILL to choose either good or evil.
Fair enough.

Just tell me this: which of the people living in Haiti chose to have their country hit by an earthquake?
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:42 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,243,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Fair enough.

Just tell me this: which of the people living in Haiti chose to have their country hit by an earthquake?
Free Will

"Free will" in the Christian sense speaks only to moral choices we make with regard to our own actions, not to events outside our control (such as a natural disaster).

Take for example, "Should I return that suitcase filled with cash that I found on the street after the earthquake to its rightful owner, or keep it?" In this instance, when one chooses to either (a) return the cash or (b) to keep it, he is exercising free will. In the latter instance, he is exercising it in accordance with the moral law; conversely, in the former instance he is choosing to violate the moral law (sin). In the Christian view it is sin that separates man from God.

New Age Doctrine

It is the "New Age," not Christianity, that teaches "you create your reality." Thus a New Ager will often ask an individual diagnosed with terminal cancer, "Why did you choose this for yourself?" Similarly, a New Ager might ask, "why did you choose to have your home and family destroyed in an earthquake?" These ideas were popularized particularly by Louise Hay, a New Ager who wrote a book called "You Can Heal Your Life" and by writer Marianne Williamson. Christianity absolutely condemns such a doctrine as heretical and apostate.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:39 PM
 
23,054 posts, read 11,171,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Free Will

"Free will" in the Christian sense speaks only to moral choices we make with regard to our own actions, not to events outside our control (such as a natural disaster).

Take for example, "Should I return that suitcase filled with cash that I found on the street after the earthquake to its rightful owner, or keep it?" In this instance, when one chooses to either (a) return the cash or (b) to keep it, he is exercising free will. In the latter instance, he is exercising it in accordance with the moral law; conversely, in the former instance he is choosing to violate the moral law (sin).
You have it reversed.
Quote:
New Age Doctrine

It is the "New Age," not Christianity, that teaches "you create your reality." Thus a New Ager will often ask an individual diagnosed with terminal cancer, "Why did you choose this for yourself?" Similarly, a New Ager might ask, "why did you choose to have your home and family destroyed in an earthquake?" These ideas were popularized particularly by Louise Hay, a New Ager who wrote a book called "You Can Heal Your Life" and by writer Marianne Williamson. Christianity absolutely condemns such a doctrine as heretical and apostate.
So would just about any sane and rational human being . . . so this is the bogeyman that has you so uptight and concerned about your complete misinterpretation of my views! My views in no way resemble or have anything to do with this New Age bogeyman of yours.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:43 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,243,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You have it reversed.So would just about any sane and rational human being . . . so this is the bogeyman that has you so uptight and concerned about your complete misinterpretation of my views! My views in no way resemble or have anything to do with this New Age bogeyman of yours.


Thank you!

Sorry about that -- that should have read:

Take for example, "Should I return that suitcase filled with cash that I found on the street after the earthquake to its rightful owner, or keep it?" In this instance, when one chooses to either (a) return the cash or (b) to keep it, he is exercising free will. In the former instance, he is exercising it in accordance with the moral law; conversely, in the latter instance he is choosing to violate the moral law (sin).
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:48 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,243,200 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You have it reversed.So would just about any sane and rational human being . . . so this is the bogeyman that has you so uptight and concerned about your complete misinterpretation of my views! My views in no way resemble or have anything to do with this New Age bogeyman of yours.


No "Hijacking the thread" Doctor!

But since you mentioned it, I would class you as a Theosophist more than a "New Ager."

Bye 4 now.
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