Was our first God, a Goddess? (disciples, myth, prophet, Islam)
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Goddesses were worshipped long before the Egyptians existed. Some of these "mother" types of figurines are 35,000 years old, made by people back when two-mile-thick ice was still covering much of the northern part of the planet!
They are also known a Mut, which is one of the oldest known words in the indo-european language which is reflected recognizably in dozens of languages.
I'm pagan and my mother godess figurue I use is a mut figurene. I made it myself. To me it is the most fundamental and basic of mother figures.
The Christian religion adapted the most common physical representations of the Godess when they wanted to show female saints and Mary. Another name for nature based pagan religion is the Old Religion.
@Great I Am...if you're going to use the Bible, please don't explain it with your own personal interpretation especially if you know nothing about it. You're telling me the Jews for thousands of years have it wrong but some how you're interpretation of Genesis is more accurate?
@Nezlie: Actually you're wrong too. That artifact that you're talking about dates back from the 20th Dynasty of Ramses III. It dates around 1200 BC. The oldest mention of Yahweh actually dates back to 2700 BC which was found in a silver armlet containing the Biblical Priestly prayers found in the Book of Numbers. That's a thousand year difference! Even Ishtar, the Babylonian/Akkadian Goddess is first mentioned in the Book of Gilgamesh dated around 2600 BC
@Chango, Lilith was not the first goddess. She wasn't even a goddess according to the Sumerians. Lilith originally meant "spirit"..not feminine or masculine. I would say Ishtar is qualified as one of the oldest goddess.
Was our first god a goddess? Well, what does history tell us?
The oldest Egyptian writing was contained in the Narmer Palette, dating 3000 BC, which depicts the god Horus and goddess, Bat. From this we can't tell what was worshiped first but we do know that they worshiped both god and goddess. Draw
Sumerian Warka Vase depicting goddess Ninhursag as well as the mask of the goddess Inanna are both 3000 years old. It is the oldest Sumerian artifact. +1 for goddess worshiped first
The Israelite's Three-shekel receipt as well as the silver armlet containing the priestly prayers in the book of Numbers mention the biblical Yahweh and also dated 3000 BC. +1 for god worshiped first.
Ġgantija, a Neolithic, megalithic temple complex on the Mediterranean island of Gozo is a possible site for a fertility cult dates around 3000BC. + 1 for goddess worshiped first.
The Gobekli Tepe, dating back 9500 BC is the oldest religious structure ever. They had pictures of human figures male and female as well as animals. Once again hard to determine if a masculine or feminine deity was worshiped first. Draw
African Python Head in Kalahari Desert of Botswana, 70,000 BC making it the oldest form of worship recorded. African tribes like the Ashanti believed that their rainbow god took form of a snake. Snakes were mostly associated with male gods. + 1 for god worshiped first.
Based on this even the oldest religious artifact determines that it is difficult to conclude that a female deity was the first icon of worship. I'm gonna go with science on this one. I'm stating facts not opinions so anyone saying that a goddess was the first god is relying on their imagination rather that concrete evidence. The answer is that no one really knows based on what we have discovered so far but most likely it was a male god.
Based on this even the oldest religious artifact determines that it is difficult to conclude that a female deity was the first icon of worship. I'm gonna go with science on this one. I'm stating facts not opinions so anyone saying that a goddess was the first god is relying on their imagination rather that concrete evidence. The answer is that no one really knows based on what we have discovered so far but most likely it was a male god.
Although the evidence is inconclusive, I tend to favor the interpretations of archeologist Marija Gimbutas, so I suspect Goddess worship came first. The female is an obvious source of life, whereas the role of the male is less obvious for people who lived prior to the domestication of animals.
The concept of "first woman" would make intuitive sense, since there would be no obvious need for a male to "make a baby," whereas the idea of a "first man" immediately leads to the intuitive problem of "where did the first human woman come from if she was not born from the womb of a goddess?" My guess is that the idea of male divinities came later, and they probably first arose as the idea of a god/goddess combination (mother/father or mother/son or mother/lover).
@ Gaylenwolf...not necessarily true and we can see this through ancient creation myths.
Let's examine the Sumerians, one of the oldest religions out there. They believe that their male god and female goddess procreated. It was not explicitly a female deity that started it all. Surprisingly enough, even thees gods and goddess came from a universal pool of semen, not a universal egg. Semen is associated with masculinity.
What about the Egyptians? Again, it was another ancient civilization. They believed their source of life came from the water called Nun, a masculine god. Not a female goddess. Then Nun created Ra, the Supreme God who created everything including other goddesses.
Babylon's god Apsu and and female Tiamat procreated. Another example of a female goddess not being the only supreme deity.
The Jews. They believed their God to be Yahweh, a masculine god.
I mean we can go on and on here but you get my point: that male gods arose first or together with a female goddess, not the other way around.
I think even the most ancient civilizations, prior to domestication of animal period, were smart enough to realize that women were the source of life but couldn't do on their own efforts without the help of males. It doesn't matter if they viewed women as the source of life, ancient civilizations were masculine dominated, meaning only their views mattered. They were hunters. Men called the shots, not the women. Men created the beliefs and religion;Not the women. So obviously since men had the voice, they would describe a creation story that related to their masculinity so obviously it would be "male-themed" and credits would be given to masculine god, not a female one. They viewed the creation of the universe from a powerful source. They associated only males as powerful while females were tender and loving, not powerful at all. This theme echoed in every ancient civilization. It is a fact so I guess you're guess is wrong..lol. Like I said, i'm strictly observing facts from history not from my own guesswork. The obvious thought here would be that male gods came and were worshiped first.
PS: Marija Gimbuta's works had lots of scrutiny. Her works are also inconclusive regarding that women deity worship came first.
Last edited by herqlez; 12-20-2010 at 04:00 PM..
Reason: FORGOT somethings to mention
@Chango, Lilith was not the first goddess. She wasn't even a goddess according to the Sumerians. Lilith originally meant "spirit"..not feminine or masculine. I would say Ishtar is qualified as one of the oldest goddess.
details, details. I was talking in terms of story continuity in the Eden myth. Lilith showed up in earlier versions of the Garden of eden stories as the first woman...a story which was probably inspired by earlier sumerian stories of Tiamat.
If you want the first goddess worshipped, you'd have to go WAY back in history to stuff now lost to time. An earth goddess is a common cross-cultural theme and there probably has been one worshipped in one version or another for 100,000+ years.
First and foremost, I must admit that I have not read this thread in its entirety.
Second, and from very many different perspectives, the question isn't (or shouldn't be) an "either-or" -- not at all.
Third, and purely in my own opinion (and those of thousands of others whose thoughts and beliefs I do not claim to represent), everything in this Universe seems to exist in balance, such as Yin and Yang.
The current, obvious exceptions occur in most "modern" religions -- those that extoll the virtues of the "male" side while ignoring, discounting or demeaning the value, impact and contributions of the "female" side.
Though I was raised in the classic fundamentalist Christian tradition, I think this represents only about half of the "story". As such, I find it extremely unbalanced and entirely lacking in something that Paul Harvey (1918 - 2009) called "The Rest of the Story". In other words, I sincerely believe there is is A WHOLE DANGED LOT of the story that we haven't been told.
I may go to Hell for this belief, but ya know what? I don't think so...
The question in this forum is was the first icon of worship a god or goddess?
There are only four options:
a. goddess
b. both god and goddess
c. god
d. none
A. goddess: The female is the obvious source of life
B. both god and goddess: Ancient people back then used their own personal experiences to describe their religion and how they viewed creation. They weren't dumb and knew that it took both male and female counterparts to produce. Females simply couldn't create without males.
c. god: even before the domestication of animals, bronze age and further back, males were the hunters, the protectors, builders of houses, tools, weapons..so they were the shot callers. Look back at every ancient religion out there, the common denominator was that males were superior over women. They controlled women and used brute force and aggression. It would make sense they would attribute a god that was powerful and masculine, not someone soft and tender like how they viewed women.
d. Some scholars think that animism came first. This would discharge the notion that a female deity was first worshiped.
Believing in a female goddess that was first worshiped really has no merit when you weigh in history, facts, and a little simple reasoning. Like i mention over and over again, I am using facts that you can cross check yourself. Everyone seems to use their opinion and now it becomes a matter or will than logic. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not entitled to their own facts. Facts are geared towards the belief that women deities were NOT worshiped first.
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