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Default argument is only an air coming out of mouth. Default argument should be supported by evidence. Bring your evidence that God does not exist. A mere "argument" won't do. You can argue all day you want but that's not a proof.
Bring me evidence that you're not a criminal. Go on, bring it. No, a clean police record doesn't count. That could mean you're a criminal who has never been caught. Refereces from friends, relatives, and co-workers? Nope, because they could be lying or maybe they're unaware of your criminal alter-ego.
Trust me, when it comes to proving a negative, I can easily and logically dismiss any and all evidence you could bring me.
Which is why your premise is utter, complete, absolute rubbish.
Yes. From my reply, it was abundantly clear than I understood your illogical premise. I illustrated its illogic by pointing out that the same is true for leprechauns and Darth Vader. Yet, unless you're even more ridiculous than you at present seem, you accept that those do not exist. As such, you do not really believe that proof is required for disbelief. Predictably, this all went completely over your head.
Let's talk some more about proof. Can we prove that passenger pigeons are extinct? No. We cannot even prove (it seems obvious that you really don't comprehend what that word means) that tyrannosaurs are extinct. Can we prove that George Washington lived, or that the planet Mars really exists? No. We simply have evidence that they exist. When evidence for something reaches a certain level, we accept it. Absence such evidence - as with leprechauns, Darth Vader, extant tyrannosaurs, God - the logical conclusion is non-existence.
So clearly, no one ordinarily demands the threshold of proof for belief and disbelief. In the real world, evidence suffices. Strong, compelling evidence, but still just evidence - which is infinitely short of proof. This is why it is hypocritical for you to demand proof for the non-existence of God. I suspect this completely eludes you, so rest assured - I do not expect you to reply coherently. This post is intended for other posters; those with a firm sense of logic and a grip on reason.
On the plus side, at least you didn't try to cling to your silly "Death proves God!" thesis. Baby steps...
Consider this a rep point since I can't give you one officially.
(I'm starting to think I've been banned from repping people. )
Then you just played your card and revealed your true motive. Thank you. I will know now to not take your questions seriously as you have no desire for answers. Your only desire to make Christians squirm because that props up your own faith in atheism.
I don't waste my time writing these lengthy posts just to joke around or to "prop up" atheism.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The problem is you don't know all the facts surrounding the culture of the time so it is unfair to make such a judgement.
No, actually, I know a great deal about the culture of the time - which is why I don't believe for an instant that the Sodom and Gamorrah story was about homosexuality. But that's another discussion.
IF we are talking history, then yes, it would be wrong for me to exert my modern morality upon another culture and judge them. As a historian, it would be unprofessional to make value judgements against ancient foreign cultures.
But we're not talking about history. We're talking about deciding what kind of morals to take out of the Bronze Age and bring to the 21st Century. We're talking about the attributes of the god you worship and how those attributes can be rectified given a much more evolved set of morals here in the 21st Century. The attributes of your god can and does impact that way some Christians behave, and that is rather important.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
But the Bible commands that they are not treated as property.
I'm sorry, but yes it does. I even gave you chapter and verse.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Property in the sense you suggest means I could do whatever I want with my property.
I'm sorry, but yes, a master can do just about whatever he wishes within the bounds of Biblical rule. A master can even beat his slave to death just as long as the slave doesn't die right away. If he languishes for a few days before dying, the master is in the clear. Again, I gave you chapter and verse.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Exodus 21:12 for starters.
This only says that if you strike a man and kill him, you should be put to death. First of all, slaves are property, not "men." Secondly, the Bible specifically states in no uncertain, ambiguous terms, that masters are allowed to beat slaves to death as long as the slave doesn't die immediately.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Galatians 3:28 also shows that God regards all men, even slaves as equal:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
That's true, God might see slaves as equal - but apparently God doesn't feel that humans should treat each other equally - or perhaps that's just Moses's opinion? Because, as stated before, God could have simply banned slavery outright instead of having rules that simply define it.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
1 Timothy 1:8-10 also condemns enslavers as sinners:
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
No, actually, it doesn't. You're using one of those "revised" Bibles that tries to hide slavery by changing the wording - such as changing the word "slave" to "servant." If you look at older Bibles, such as the King James version (not the American King James version), it does NOT say "enslavers," it says "manstealers" or "kidnappers." In fact, there is a similar verse in Exodus about kidnapping which says kidnappers should be put to death whether or not the victim had been sold..
And right out of the same book, 1 Timothy 6:1-2 says:
1All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. 2Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If God truly approved of slavery, why do we have these verses?
Because the Bible is a mess of contradictions. However, my intent wasn't to get bogged down on the issue of slavery. That is but one of many issues I have with God's behavior in the Old Testament, behavior that I cannot reconcile with my own personal morality. Am I to suddenly give license for genocide, wanton murder, infanticide, even butchering kittens and puppies? Because I cannot nor would I want to. Yet that is precisely the license I would have to give God - who is supposed to be the source of all love and morality.
Bring me evidence that you're not a criminal. Go on, bring it. No, a clean police record doesn't count. That could mean you're a criminal who has never been caught. Refereces from friends, relatives, and co-workers? Nope, because they could be lying or maybe they're unaware of your criminal alter-ego.
Trust me, when it comes to proving a negative, I can easily and logically dismiss any and all evidence you could bring me.
Which is why your premise is utter, complete, absolute rubbish.
lol ahahhahaha ...
Lets do the reciprocal. If we go by your logic, no matter what proof is brought to you that God DOES exist, you will find a way to dismiss it. So why asking for a proof?
But it's a double jeopardy here, you simply do NOT have a proof of ANY KIND that God does not exist to being with.
The demographics of belief/disbelief in the US are such that the atheists form a 9 to 10 % minority. In that atheists see their position on the cosmos as the product of using reason and evidence rather than dogma and mythology, then of course there is a certain amount of pride associated with being an atheist, a feeling of being part of an elite group who have overcome the superstition and emotionalism of the majority. That superior feeling will certainly be part of the way that the atheist defines his or her self, even if it is never given public voice.
Ok here we go. You dropped off the map after you thoroughly insulted me and everyone else so I'm here to return the favor. This is the first post you posted (in a 4 year old thread, I might add) which is lame at best. I don't know where you get your information about atheists and since you claim to be one (not evident in this post at all) but there are plenty of us out there who don't feel superior, I think that is you projecting your own feelings onto others. We're not part of an elite group or any group for that matter, you must be very special if you belong to said group. You are generalizing a minority group which either you are definitely not a part of or you're in a league of your own because being an atheist is nothing special, it's just different and hard for the religious to understand. I stand by my first assessment of you, you're an agnostic at best and from this post NO ONE would get that you are an atheist.
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What if that environment was abruptly and severely altered? What it something happened which caused nearly everyone to abandon religious beliefs and the demographic was reversed? In a society where 90 % were atheists and but 10 % clung to religious beliefs, the earlier atheists would suffer an ego blow, no longer feeling special at all, now just part of the crowd, distinctiveness evaporated.
What if what if? It will never happen so why are you even contemplating such a thing? Atheists would not suffer an ego blow, you might with your condescending and superior attitude, but the majority of us would be quite happy with a reversal. What exactly is your problem with atheists?
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For those unable to adjust to the new dynamic, the only way to recover that elite feeling would be to be a born again minority, in this case going over to the ten percent who champion deist explanations. It will be necessary to manufacture a set of rationalizations as to why the truth of scripture was previously not evident, but with rationalizations, anything may be justified. Emerging is someone who insists he or she has found proof of God, even if the proof is the same stuff previously rejected.
Once again you are projecting and are you seriously saying that atheists would convert simply to be in the minority again? Unbelievable. This post is so obviously skewed and ridiculously stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering. This is all YOU talking about YOU. You would convert to religion in a second if the tide was turned and atheism became the majority. Like I said, you're not an atheist, you're just an elitist.
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And that is probably the only way to do it, some sort of emotionally generated re-ordering of the mind. How could any lesser creature ever be certain that he or she is correctly interpreting manifest superiority?
"There must be a God" said the goldfish, "Who changes the water?"
Wow you're really out there aren't you? Now I just feel sorry for you.
Lets do the reciprocal. If we go by your logic, no matter what proof is brought to you that God DOES exist, you will find a way to dismiss it. So why asking for a proof?
But it's a double jeopardy here, you simply do NOT have a proof of ANY KIND that God does not exist to being with.
OK, I'll make one last effort to provide you with an example that would incline me to believe in god:
He declares himself. Plain and simple. If he's a real, physical being with infinite power, this should be easy: Just part the clouds, float down from the sky, and declare yourself!
Oh, and since he's supposedly male I want to see his genitalia to verify his sex. I must admit even though I'm not gay I'm curious as to the nature of a deity's penis.
OK, I'll make one last effort to provide you with an example that would incline me to believe in god:
He declares himself. Plain and simple. If he's a real, physical being with infinite power, this should be easy: Just part the clouds, float down from the sky, and declare yourself!
Oh, and since he's supposedly male I want to see his genitalia to verify his sex. I must admit even though I'm not gay I'm curious as to the nature of a deity's penis.
If God shows himself to you then what's the point of test of faith? Faith is believing in the unseen. Seeing God is inevitable but that comes AFTER death. And as I said, if anyone wants to convince me that God does not exist then simply show me a way to live forever so that I don't have to die.
God clearly informs the humanity"
"[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving -" Quran 67:2
There you go, did you have the ability to stop the process of your birth? ..... NO, of course NOT!
And now, do you have the ability, knowledge and skill to stop the death from coming to you, No? Yes?
of course you don't, otherwise go ahead and disprove God's challenge.
So far as wondering about God's gender, you started off with the wrong assumption by putting God in a human form.
Have you ever seen the genitalia of "TIME"? Have you even seen the genitalia of "Light"?
If God shows himself to you then what's the point of test of faith? Faith is believing in the unseen. Seeing God is inevitable but that comes AFTER death. And as I said, if anyone wants to convince me that God does not exist then simply show me a way to live forever so that I don't have to die.
God clearly informs the humanity"
"[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving -" Quran 67:2
There you go, did you have the ability to stop the process of your birth? ..... NO, of course NOT!
And now, do you have the ability, knowledge and skill to stop the death from coming to you, No? Yes?
of course you don't, otherwise go ahead and disprove God's challenge.
So far as wondering about God's gender, you started off with the wrong assumption by putting God in a human form.
Have you ever seen the genitalia of "TIME"? Have you even seen the genitalia of "Light"?
Clearly, fear of death fosters "faith," and not just with Christians.
To me, that seems a rickety foundation upon which to build a lasting, true belief.
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For athesist and agnostics: What would constitute proof of God?
)
..... NO, of course NOT! 
