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By what means are you seperating "creation" from "nature" and asserting one rules over the other? How are they not the same thing?
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Atheists prefer not to acknowledge its status and power relative to us
That statement could not be more false. Justify it or retract it please.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
and accept our ignorance of it as "It Just is."
You have been corrected on this misreprsentation many times before. We do not "just accept" our ignorance. We fight to remove it by learning and discovery. You attempt to remove it by inventing a fantasy and declaring it has answered that ignorance.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
And if we are truthful . . . we have only scratched the surface of what it does and how. We have absolutely no idea about why.
Agreed. So now that you have expressed a new found wish to be truthful - the truth is that we have no reason to think this is a conscious universe is there? There is much we do not know - and as you say we have only touched the surface - but the idea the universe itself is conscious is - lets be honest with each other 100% here - something you simply made up. Right?
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Atheists are good with that . . . and that is fine . . . but it in no way whatsoever justifies the "not one shred of evidence" nonsense.
What justifies the "not one shred of evidence" statement has nothing to do with that. What justifies the "not one shred of evidence" comment is that you have made assertions - such as the universe itself is conscious - and have given "not one shred of evidence" to support that assertion.
If you give no evidence - then pray tell how is pointing out that you have given no evidence - "nonsense" exactly? It is not nonsense. It is a 100% accurate summation of reality.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
(phrased as "Gaps for God" by annoying atheists)
That phrase has nothing to do with being annoying either but is once again an accurate description of what is happening. You appear to get horrifically offended when people describe things accurately.
The fact is there are many things we do not know. And the fact is that many theists jump to those gaps and serve them up as evidence for a god. Because if we can not answer a question - then their impression is that this means "Goddunnit".
If us noticing that tactic and pointing it out annoys you so much - then I feel for you - but that is the reality and reality is not going away on your behest.
For athesist and agnostics: What would constitute proof of God?
Atheists i've known over my lifetime dont need proof of god as we really dont care either way,its on par with the discovery of a black hole at the center of our galaxy.. who cares?
Why NOT??? You have not established this . . . just asserted it. How does the existence of "Nature" preclude it being the Source of "Nature?"
Because it means that "Nature" would have had to create itself before it existed. At least it would if you're using the actual definitions of the words rather than playing semantic games to try and create a god out of thin air...
God is not going to sit under your microscope to be dissected.
Would you let me put "you" under a microscope to be dissected?
He is a living person, a living Spirit .
A realm of existence man is destined to, one way or another.
Question is, that with in that realm God will not allow rebellion to go unregulated , so those resistant to His authority cannot disrupt and endanger those He cares about.
All the rebellious are isolated to one confinement.
How would these men of the old testament and new, know that the core of the earth was molten and expanding? Unless they were told by some one whom made it.
God is not going to sit under your microscope to be dissected.
Would you let me put "you" under a microscope to be dissected?
He is a living person, a living Spirit .
A realm of existence man is destined to, one way or another.
Question is, that with in that realm God will not allow rebellion to go unregulated , so those resistant to His authority cannot disrupt and endanger those He cares about.
All the rebellious are isolated to one confinement.
How would these men of the old testament and new, know that the core of the earth was molten and expanding? Unless they were told by some one whom made it.
God is not going to sit under your microscope to be dissected.
Would you let me put "you" under a microscope to be dissected?
He is a living person, a living Spirit .
A realm of existence man is destined to, one way or another.
Question is, that with in that realm God will not allow rebellion to go unregulated , so those resistant to His authority cannot disrupt and endanger those He cares about.
All the rebellious are isolated to one confinement.
How would these men of the old testament and new, know that the core of the earth was molten and expanding? Unless they were told by some one whom made it.
Zeus is not going to sit under your microscope to be dissected.
Would you let me put "you" under a microscope to be dissected?
He is a living person, a living Spirit .
A realm of existence man is destined to, one way or another.
Question is, that with in that realm Zeus will not allow rebellion to go unregulated , so those resistant to His authority cannot disrupt and endanger those He cares about.
All the rebellious are isolated to one confinement.
How would these men of the ancient Greek scriptures, and new, know that the core of the earth was molten and expanding? Unless they were told by some one whom made it.
God is not going to sit under your microscope to be dissected.
Uh, no one is demanding we have the opportunity to slice God apart. "Okay, with this incision, we will expose the divine intestines. Notice, class, that yes, God's ... excrement ... really doesn't stink."
No ... just showing himself and proving he is real would be fine.
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Originally Posted by arleigh
Would you let me put "you" under a microscope to be dissected?
Of course not, but if someone thought I was someone else's fiction, I would have no compunction about revealing myself. I'm not a masked superhero with an alter-ego.
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Originally Posted by arleigh
Question is, that with in that realm God will not allow rebellion to go unregulated , so those resistant to His authority cannot disrupt and endanger those He cares about.
Now ... this doesn't make any sense. Think about it.
If we all went to Heaven when we die, we would have no reason to be rebellious because everything is already perfect. Why yes, we're going to rebel because we want it to be MORE perfect ... like being more pregnant or more dead.
Aside from the universalists, most Christians have adopted an us vs. them mentality - which is why I have repeatedly said that Christianity is just a really big messianic doomsday cult. And cults just LOVE fostering an us vs. them mentality. If you're not one of "us" then you're one of "them" and you're going to pay dearly for not heeding the beliefs of my cult.
Because my perfect, loving, fair, and just God, the source of love and morality, will torture you for eternity for not joining my cult - irrespective of whether or not you were a good person in life.
It's just a shame that so many people have been bamboozled into this kind of thinking. But, I suppose one cannot really appreciate a sense of belonging to something if everyone's a member, so there has to be a "them" to scoff at and threaten with punishment.
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Originally Posted by arleigh
All the rebellious are isolated to one confinement.
Aaaand, this proves my point.
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Originally Posted by arleigh
How would these men of the old testament and new, know that the core of the earth was molten and expanding? Unless they were told by some one whom made it.
So you think God found it important to know that the earth's core was molten but failed to explain to them germ theory? Really? They might all die from infections but at least they would stand a chance as a contestant on Jeopardy.
Uh, no one is demanding we have the opportunity to slice God apart. "Okay, with this incision, we will expose the divine intestines. Notice, class, that yes, God's ... excrement ... really doesn't stink."
No ... just showing himself and proving he is real would be fine.
Of course not, but if someone thought I was someone else's fiction, I would have no compunction about revealing myself. I'm not a masked superhero with an alter-ego.
Now ... this doesn't make any sense. Think about it.
If we all went to Heaven when we die, we would have no reason to be rebellious because everything is already perfect. Why yes, we're going to rebel because we want it to be MORE perfect ... like being more pregnant or more dead.
Aside from the universalists, most Christians have adopted an us vs. them mentality - which is why I have repeatedly said that Christianity is just a really big messianic doomsday cult. And cults just LOVE fostering an us vs. them mentality. If you're not one of "us" then you're one of "them" and you're going to pay dearly for not heeding the beliefs of my cult.
Because my perfect, loving, fair, and just God, the source of love and morality, will torture you for eternity for not joining my cult - irrespective of whether or not you were a good person in life.
It's just a shame that so many people have been bamboozled into this kind of thinking. But, I suppose one cannot really appreciate a sense of belonging to something if everyone's a member, so there has to be a "them" to scoff at and threaten with punishment.
Aaaand, this proves my point.
So you think God found it important to know that the earth's core was molten but failed to explain to them germ theory? Really? They might all die from infections but at least they would stand a chance as a contestant on Jeopardy.
This is really funny stuff Shirina...your wit and sense of humor is top-notch. You should do stand-up comedy. This is much better than the material G. Carlin did.
Uh, no one is demanding we have the opportunity to slice God apart. "Okay, with this incision, we will expose the divine intestines. Notice, class, that yes, God's ... excrement ... really doesn't stink."
No ... just showing himself and proving he is real would be fine.
Of course not, but if someone thought I was someone else's fiction, I would have no compunction about revealing myself. I'm not a masked superhero with an alter-ego.
Why should God bother revealing Himself to people who obviously hate His guts? (pun intended) I sure wouldn't. Like one atheist told me, even if God completely showed Himself to me, I would still rather give Him the finger and burn in hell than worship Him.
So you think God found it important to know that the earth's core was molten but failed to explain to them germ theory? Really? They might all die from infections but at least they would stand a chance as a contestant on Jeopardy.
Some of the OT laws that you love to rub in our face actually were designed to protect against infections and diseases like the command to bury feces away from camp.
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who cares?
