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When I was a believer, I was a very devout believer and I would have done anything I thought God wanted me to do. I was Mormon, and Mormons don't have monasteries. But, had I been Catholic, or whatnot, I could have easily been the type of person to become a Jesuit.
I saw a documentary on monasteries a year or so ago. Young people were trying out that lifestyle to see if they wanted to commit to it. Very interesting.
As it is, I am now an atheist, and am very thankful to have a wife and kids. When I think of all the devotion I gave and sacrifices I made to a god that does not exist, it seems like such a waste. There was no all-seeing eye that noticed or appreciated my devotion. I was bowing before an imaginary friend. There will be no reward for all that I did for god. All the scriptures I read and studied and memorized - all for nought. All my faith and repentance and strivings to be a better disciple - what a waste! The only thing that wasn't pointless was the people I helped (but that was only a small part of all I did because I believed). Countless hours at church learning about what amounts to a complex fiction. I suppose there were some universal truths about the human condition, but they were not what current believers consider the universal truths.
That's fine, but my intent with this thread was largely to avoid another "is religion true or false" debate. There are many of those here, I did not wish another. (Although I'm unsurprised an atheist broke with this before a Fundie did)
very rich post.
you'd think sometimes the keys were handed over to Paul instead of Peter.
I think they probably were.
Monasticism. It's a choice. at least, it is now. Celibacy ain't natural. But as I have said elsewhere, natural doesn't neccessarily mean Good. I would never want to get into a philosophical tumbling act of saying that natural is better except where the unnatural happens to be a preference. Circular argument/special pleading, you see.
Nor would I want to use the 'If everybody did it..' argument because clearly, THAT is not our problem. It is more everyone doing It rather too much and without enough regard to the consequences.
So, if people want to join in celibate communities whether to serve their particular god or to escape from abusive husbands (but NOT to study Guerilla warfare manuals and do pipe - bomb fabrication - therapy) then I'm happy for them. Especially if they produce that fantastic perry.
Just so they don't roll up with a flapping robe and a funny haircut telling me that evidence - based science is wrong because they are happy how they are living. And they should pay their taxes, too.
its lots lots harder than it seems. the basic premise. a group of your peers will judge you 24/7 from the time you get up til you go to sleep.
threat of getting kicked out or failing is major. failure in front of your family and community, the ones that sent you is a giant threat.
failure in front of everyone which will also reflect on your family. the pressure is enormous to succeed.
there too is the additional possibiity your organization could be corrupt so what they are preaching and teaching is not what they practice in the monastic program. they make rules for you to follow they in fact dont follow themselves.
a major problem.
its lots lots harder than it seems. the basic premise. a group of your peers will judge you 24/7 from the time you get up til you go to sleep.
threat of getting kicked out or failing is major. failure in front of your family and community, the ones that sent you is a giant threat.
failure in front of everyone which will also reflect on your family. the pressure is enormous to succeed.
there too is the additional possibiity your organization could be corrupt so what they are preaching and teaching is not what they practice in the monastic program. they make rules for you to follow they in fact dont follow themselves.
a major problem.
A bit like the rest of life. Clearly the answer is to make it not such a big deal if you flunk out. Unfortunately, when people take the religious premises so darn seriously, they HAVE to make it a big deal. At least if they see a Big God with a disappointed frown glaring down at someone who failed to make Matins yet again.
So, maybe what the monastic thing needs is to remove the religious aspect. After all, isn't the reciting of texts a bit like the turning of the handle in prisons, just to give people something to fill in the time?
By all means a retreat, a community, singing Organum too, if it makes them happy, and some monasteries or even individuals can be celibate if they want.
But, yes, maybe it's time to take off the religious pressure.
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Clearly the answer is to make it not such a big deal if you flunk out. Unfortunately, when people take the religious premises so darn seriously, they HAVE to make it a big deal. At least if they see a Big God with a disappointed frown glaring down at someone who failed to make Matins yet again.
