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Right now I live in an illegal apartment, and the landlord want us to sign a lease or evict us (I'll summarize this a bit at the end). This place is most definitely illegal as all hell (not zoned residential, no heating, exposed wiring everywhere, leaky pipes, no sprinklers/smoke detectors, etc) and the landlord is a somewhat notorious brooklyn slumlord. We can all make the rent, but I'm the only one out of my roommates with perfect credit, so they (my roommates) want me to go through the lease application and sign it and such. I like my roommates a lot, and I don't want them to lose the place they love. On the other hand, I kind of plan on moving elsewhere in the next month or two. If I sign this lease so my friends can keep their place, could there be any consequences for me? They are most likely going to keep paying the rent, but if things go badly I figured since it's an illegal apartment he (the landlord) can't really come after me anyway.
Here's a brief timeline:
The seven of us were paying our rent to the 8th roommate (frank), who was giving it to the landlord. We had no actual interaction with the landlord before. None of us are, or ever have been, on any kind of lease for this loft.
Nov 12:
Frank has been gone a while, and we notice the checks we gave him on the 1st have not been deposited. We text to ask him what's going on and he says the landlord wants us out. This is the last contact we ever have with Frank. He no longer responds.
Nov 13:
The rest of us meet up and try to figure things out, we add up all of what we pay (without Frank) and it comes to 4500.
Nov 14:
Someone gets in contact with the landlord/their secretary and gets a history of what was paid. The rent due each month was actually 4000, and it hasn't been paid in a while. The total back rent is around 23k. He claims he has been trying to contact us for months, but none of us have received anything (except perhaps the now missing Frank)
Over the next few days we have some back and forth contact over the phone and set up a meeting.
Nov 21:
We have a sit down meeting. We want to stay, but we aren't good negotiators :/. The rent is now 5500, and we give that to him there for november since none of us had our checks cashed for that month anyway. He wants us to enter a lease december 1, and give him first + last + deposit (3 months rent on that day). We initially agreed, but realize later that not everyone can afford it.
Next few days:
We call a few times and try to negotiate to just first month + deposit. He doesn't budge much, but is willing to let us pay the last month part over the next 5 months. To me, this isn't much of a deal because I can afford to pay about the same and live somewhere with working heating and many more amenities.
Now we need to hand in lease applications and it turns out that only me and one other guy are even remotely likely to pass any kind of credit check. I really do not want to to be the sole (or even just split with two) person legally responsible for this.
Again, my question is basically how badly could this bite me in the ass if I go through with it, given that it's an illegal apartment? I love my roommates, but I don't want to completely screw myself over for them. Is there some way I can protect myself? (sublease?) If I don't agree to sign the lease, how long would it take for him to force us out?
Thanks
Last edited by Kieserite; 11-27-2013 at 09:09 PM..
Ok first of all just so I understand you are paying $5500 a month for rent? If you sign a lease you're unfortunately the one stuck paying for it. How much would a regular legal built apartment be in the area where you live now? Granted I don't know Brooklyn? rent prices but $5500 seems....Excessive?
I understand loyalty to friends but if you plan on moving elsewhere in a few months you would be crazy to sign a lease. Well you would be crazy to sign a lease for anyone.
Bro my mom asked me to consign a car loan for her and I wouldn't do it. Never EVER sign a lease or use your credit for someone else. I doubt the slumlord is gonna throw them out. If he us getting 45-5500 in repnt over month he's not gonna wanna lose that. If I were you and your friends I would tell the LL to go pound sand and move elsewhere
Ok first of all just so I understand you are paying $5500 a month for rent? If you sign a lease you're unfortunately the one stuck paying for it. How much would a regular legal built apartment be in the area where you live now? Granted I don't know Brooklyn? rent prices but $5500 seems....Excessive?
I understand loyalty to friends but if you plan on moving elsewhere in a few months you would be crazy to sign a lease. Well you would be crazy to sign a lease for anyone.
Bro my mom asked me to consign a car loan for her and I wouldn't do it. Never EVER sign a lease or use your credit for someone else. I doubt the slumlord is gonna throw them out. If he us getting 45-5500 in repnt over month he's not gonna wanna lose that. If I were you and your friends I would tell the LL to go pound sand and move elsewhere
This would be 5500 split between 8 people living in 7 rooms. It's a entire floor of a converted shirt factory. My current share of the rent is 770. With my share of utilities and the payments on the deposit over the next few months, it would add up to about 1100/mo for me. For brooklyn this isn't crazy, but I could do far, far, better for 12/1300 (which I can easily afford).
I'm personally perfectly happy moving elsewhere, but my current roommates love it. The place is very large (we each have a 200-250+ sqft room, plus a large common area for kitchen/living room space), and it does have certain charms.
My gut also tells me signing the lease is a bad idea, but I hate hurting my friends. If I did do this, how badly could the landlord hurt me?
I know you don't want to do anything to p*** off your friends, but you have to look out for your own interests. If your friends have terrible credit, there's probably a good reason for that. They'll say they'll never s crew you over and maybe they won't. But what happens if one of their scorned creditors decides to take them to court, gets a judgment, and starts garnishing their wages? What happens if one of them loses their job or bails out in the middle of the lease? The more people you have involved, the greater the likelihood of you getting stuck holding the bag.
My suggestion, and you're not going to like this, would be to either get a different place with the other guy with good credit or get a place of your own. Under no circumstances should you put your name on a lease to live with 7 other dudes, 6 of whom have bad credit, in an illegal apartment. That's a recipe for disaster. Don't assume the landlord can't or won't take you to court. You'd be amazed what can happen sometimes. Also, I'm assuming you're young... You don't want to mess up your credit in your 20s. I'm sure others here are with me on this. Look out for yourself, not your friends.
This would be 5500 split between 8 people living in 7 rooms. It's a entire floor of a converted shirt factory. My current share of the rent is 770. With my share of utilities and the payments on the deposit over the next few months, it would add up to about 1100/mo for me. For brooklyn this isn't crazy, but I could do far, far, better for 12/1300 (which I can easily afford).
I'm personally perfectly happy moving elsewhere, but my current roommates love it. The place is very large (we each have a 200-250+ sqft room, plus a large common area for kitchen/living room space), and it does have certain charms.
My gut also tells me signing the lease is a bad idea, but I hate hurting my friends. If I did do this, how badly could the landlord hurt me?
The LL can go after you for the full amount of the lease monthly payment . All it takes is one of your buddies to do a financial crash and burn. I have rentals. The annoying ones are roommate situations. Granted. It doesn't happen a lot but one roommate moving puts the other in a disadvantage. Sometimes roommates get in fights one wants to move, another finds. Super girl and wants to get hitched etc. Basically situations come up.
You will be stuck with the lease payment. The FULL lease payment.
I think you will be holding a live grenade in the dark room looking for the pin on the floor if you go through with it. You either will find the pin or hold that grenade spoon down so it won't blow up in your face. Personally as much as I love my friends, financial stuff tends to drive wedges in friendships. Don't do it
As for it being illegal, if this is a commercial/industrial loft conversion, just call the NYC Loft Board and they can tell you if its legal. On these older buildings and conversions, zoning is a bit different, and even some of the building codes are different depeding on the building package.
Thanks for the advice. I'll find some way to break it to them asap.
Legality-wise, I'm very sure this is illegal. If I search the building on Buildings Information System there are things like
WORK W/O A PERMIT WORK NOTED FULL HT SHEET ROCK PARTITION WALLS ERECTED TO ILLEGALLY CONVERT FACTORY INTO CLASS A DWELLING @ 2ND FL W/ KITCHEN W/ GAS STOVE SINK 2 INDIVIDUAL 3PC BATHROOMS W/ SINK SHOWER &
OCCUPANCY CONTRARY TO THAT ALLOWED BY BLDGS DEPT RECORDS NOTE BLDG RECORDS INDICATE FACTORY BLDG NOW 1ST FL ILLEGALLY CONVERTED INTO CLASS A DWELLING W/ BEDROOMS W/ BEDS DRESSER CLOTHES LIVINGROOM W/ SOFA TV ST
AILURE TO COMPLY W/ THE COMMS ORDER TO FILE CERT OF CORRECTION FOR PROR ECB #xxxxxxxxx FOR OCCUPANCY CONTRARY TO RECORDS CONVERTED A FACTORY BLDG INTO DWELLING 7SROS ON EACH OF 3FL NO SPRINKLERS OBSERVED OBSTR
etc. All of them are in "default." Though these stop in 2011 for some reason and the later violations are just things like boilers and cracks in the building.
Since we did pay him rent in november, What would the timeline be like for him evicting us? Does he have to give us one month notice again (assuming he gave it in the past, but it was intercepted by frank)?
Right now I live in an illegal apartment, and the landlord want us to sign a lease or evict us (I'll summarize this a bit at the end). This place is most definitely illegal as all hell (not zoned residential, no heating, exposed wiring everywhere, leaky pipes, no sprinklers/smoke detectors, etc) and the landlord is a somewhat notorious brooklyn slumlord. We can all make the rent, but I'm the only one out of my roommates with perfect credit, so they (my roommates) want me to go through the lease application and sign it and such. I like my roommates a lot, and I don't want them to lose the place they love. On the other hand, I kind of plan on moving elsewhere in the next month or two. If I sign this lease so my friends can keep their place, could there be any consequences for me? They are most likely going to keep paying the rent, but if things go badly I figured since it's an illegal apartment he (the landlord) can't really come after me anyway.
Here's a brief timeline:
The seven of us were paying our rent to the 8th roommate (frank), who was giving it to the landlord. We had no actual interaction with the landlord before. None of us are, or ever have been, on any kind of lease for this loft.
Nov 12:
Frank has been gone a while, and we notice the checks we gave him on the 1st have not been deposited. We text to ask him what's going on and he says the landlord wants us out. This is the last contact we ever have with Frank. He no longer responds.
Nov 13:
The rest of us meet up and try to figure things out, we add up all of what we pay (without Frank) and it comes to 4500.
Nov 14:
Someone gets in contact with the landlord/their secretary and gets a history of what was paid. The rent due each month was actually 4000, and it hasn't been paid in a while. The total back rent is around 23k. He claims he has been trying to contact us for months, but none of us have received anything (except perhaps the now missing Frank)
Over the next few days we have some back and forth contact over the phone and set up a meeting.
Nov 21:
We have a sit down meeting. We want to stay, but we aren't good negotiators :/. The rent is now 5500, and we give that to him there for november since none of us had our checks cashed for that month anyway. He wants us to enter a lease december 1, and give him first + last + deposit (3 months rent on that day). We initially agreed, but realize later that not everyone can afford it.
Next few days:
We call a few times and try to negotiate to just first month + deposit. He doesn't budge much, but is willing to let us pay the last month part over the next 5 months. To me, this isn't much of a deal because I can afford to pay about the same and live somewhere with working heating and many more amenities.
Now we need to hand in lease applications and it turns out that only me and one other guy are even remotely likely to pass any kind of credit check. I really do not want to to be the sole (or even just split with two) person legally responsible for this.
Again, my question is basically how badly could this bite me in the ass if I go through with it, given that it's an illegal apartment? I love my roommates, but I don't want to completely screw myself over for them. Is there some way I can protect myself? (sublease?) If I don't agree to sign the lease, how long would it take for him to force us out?
Thanks
DO NOT SIGN THE LEASE!!!!! You will be responsible if they do not pay.
Talk to your friends, explain to them your concerns and why you CANT do it. Don't be wishy washy. I can't do this the penalties are too great. If the LL wants the money he will let them stay, I doubt he cares much except for getting the money.
Let your friends do it on their own. They have bad credit for a reason. I learned my lesson about lending to friends and family. I guarantee you at some point things will change between them. "Frank" is living proof since it seems he skipped town
Run run run. Do NOT sign anything! I don't think you understand how a lease works. If you sign a lease saying you will pay $5500 a month, guess what? You owe $5500 a month. Your roommates don't owe a dime, and they will pay you only on the honor system. You do not want to be responsible for collecting rent from 7 other people, when you have absolutely no recourse for forcing them to pay, or even the right to evict them. I know they're your friends, but signing a lease worth $66,000 (5500x12) trumps any friendship in the world.
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