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All my leases are legally enforceable and no tenant has ever been forced to sign a lease.
Furthermore an exiting tenant has a different idea of what constitutes "clean" vs. a prospective tenant. I deem the difference translated into cash is $400.
I really hate activist tenants. Either rent the house or don't, but please quit whining. I can't stand adults that whine.
Well, for your information some of us who responded to you are on the LL/PM end. So that blows your theory right out the shooter now doesn't it? AND furthermore, not one person who negated your bogus nonrefundable cleaning fee was whining. But, if you really want to have a hissy-fit regarding who whines the most all I can say to you is, "I have some nice aged cheese that would go perfectly with all of yours."
Again, whether you can get away 'legally' with charging ALL tenants a NONrefundable deposit or not, it by NO means comes close to being considered nice, fair, ethical or is done in good faith IF the tenant cleans sufficiently themselves. So, you have no right to 'whine' about how tenants don't clean because they would be fools TO clean if they have to pay YOU $400 to do it!
But, let me guess, you also jump off bridges just because other people do it, right?
Last edited by Corn-fused; 09-21-2016 at 10:13 PM..
I am a renter. I think that's absurd. I don't dislike landlords, in fact, I like mine very much so after the initial hiccups, and glazing over the fact that the apartment is more of a slumlord apartment feel. And I do read my leases, and I have asked before what something meant if I didn't understand it. And I've walked away from applications that I felt were too much. Saves everyone time.
No one's whining either. We're just stating that nonrefundable anything isn't exactly fair and honest.
I guess it all depends on the package. With my last place, the lease specified "Broom Swept" and included such a fee being discussed, paid up front. The security deposit was so low (1/3 of Rent) that the fee that brought it up to half rent wasn't enough money to fall out over. Now, if I had been asked to pay a full months rent, plus a pet fee, AND a cleaning fee, I likely would have kept looking. The lease specified broom swept condition, and the PM's painted everything as a matter of habit anyway. Their cleaning fee cost $75 more than what I would have paid a maid service, but at the end of the day I wasn't going to dig my heels in for $75.
My fiance and I did pass on a place that wanted first, last, and two months rent as a deposit. There was simply no reason to tie up that much money when most landlords wanted first and a security deposit. AFAIK, they are still vacant as I drive by the place almost every day. In the Bay Area or NYC, this might be commonplace and the LL's could even rent it without appliances.
Local custom rules in most Real Estate. It is what it is.
Well, for your information some of us who responded to you are on the LL/PM end. So that blows your theory right out the shooter now doesn't it? AND furthermore, not one person who negated your bogus nonrefundable cleaning fee was whining. But, if you really want to have a hissy-fit regarding who whines the most all I can say to you is, "I have some nice aged cheese that would go perfectly with all of yours."
Again, whether you can get away 'legally' with charging ALL tenants a NONrefundable deposit or not, it by NO means comes close to being considered nice, fair, ethical or is done in good faith IF the tenant cleans sufficiently themselves. So, you have no right to 'whine' about how tenants don't clean because they would be fools TO clean if they have to pay YOU $400 to do it!
But, let me guess, you also jump off bridges just because other people do it, right?
The difference is "broom clean" when a tenant leaves, vs "rent ready" when a tenant moves in. Tenants don't leave rentals "rent ready", and *someone* has to come in and scrub the smudges off the glass shelves in the fridge, clean the stuff off the sides & back of the toilets & about a thousand other things to make a rental "rent ready". There's nothing "bogus" about charging for for a detailed cleaning that only a team of professionals can do properly. On my 1100 sq ft rentals, a rent-ready interior only cleaning costs about $250, and takes a crew of 3-4 *professional* cleaners at least half a day, and that's assuming the "big / obvious stuff" is done by the tenant already - if there's cheese stuck to the top of the microwave, and food stuck to the shelves of the fridge, it costs even more.
Let's put it this way - when you stay just *one* night at a Hampton Inn, and pay $99 for the privilege, how much of that $99 do you really think goes for cleaning? Prepping a "clean" hotel room that was designed to be cleaned quickly & was only occupied for one night takes a couple of professional cleaners a couple of hours. That's probably half of your hotel bill for a one-night stay, and tenants just won't accept "Motel 6 clean" in a $1000+ rental in my market.
The argument that "rent should reflect the cost of cleaning" is irrational & counter to being "fair" - as a landlord, I could jack the rent $30 a month to cover that cost (and assume the tenant is only going to be there a year) but if a tenant stays five years instead of one, I collected $1800 for $300 worth of cleaning. Would that make you feel better? Much better (and fairer) to charge the actual expected cost up-front & specify "broom clean" at move-out, rather than trying to explain to a tenant that they need to get on their knees and pick up every pube in the bathroom if they want their deposit back.
The difference is "broom clean" when a tenant leaves, vs "rent ready" when a tenant moves in. Tenants don't leave rentals "rent ready", and *someone* has to come in and scrub the smudges off the glass shelves in the fridge, clean the stuff off the sides & back of the toilets & about a thousand other things to make a rental "rent ready". There's nothing "bogus" about charging for for a detailed cleaning that only a team of professionals can do properly. On my 1100 sq ft rentals, a rent-ready interior only cleaning costs about $250, and takes a crew of 3-4 *professional* cleaners at least half a day, and that's assuming the "big / obvious stuff" is done by the tenant already - if there's cheese stuck to the top of the microwave, and food stuck to the shelves of the fridge, it costs even more.
Maybe the rental market where you are is so tight that you can get away with that kind of nonsense, but I know that unless I was desperate I would never rent from anyone with a policy like that, I would be afraid that you would pull more shenanigans in the future.
The way it works in California is that if you leave the place clean you get your cleaning deposit back and that is how it should be.
OK - I got a copy of the lease. It does say we need to professionally clean the carpets. So that's on us.
We regularly shampoo the carpets with our own carpet cleaner but we have not had them professionally cleaned. But there are some other issues, so let me focus on these.
We live in California.
Yes - everything is very old.
I need to clarify about the screens. They don't have holes. The screen on the slider is separating from the frame. This is only from opening and closing the door.
Several tabs that hold the plastic hanging vertical blinds have broken just from use - so some panels are missing.
The carpet was really old when we moved in and is now nearly disintegrating and the linoleum floors were old and stained and lifting in some areas when we moved in.
The problem with cleaning the windows is that they are high on the 2nd floor, we are old, and can't reach them. I guess we'll have to hire someone.
The landlord cleans the gutters every year - we have not been required to.
The biggest problem I'm concerned about is the landscaping. When we moved in there was quite a bit. But with the drought, no one has kept up their landscaping. We all stopped watering several years ago and no one is watering now. The lease specifies we keep up the landscaping. The property is pretty large. There was a 20-yard x 10-yard lawn when we moved in. That is completely gone. Just replacing that and the other landscaping will probably eat up the entire $1650 deposit. And now I'm worried we'll be liable for even more. This could be bad.
Thanks Corn-fused: I am in CA and I did read the Consumers Affairs website, but it's still a little vague as to what wear-and-tear is. I also reviewed the lease and we do have to professionally clean the carpets. They were very old when we moved in. Even the neighbors asked if they finally replaced "that nasty old carpet."
I think the landscaping issue will forfeit the entire $1650. With the drought, no one has been watering here for several years. Everything is back to nature. Nothing I can do about that at this point. We discussed reseeding the lawn with the owner, as it was almost all weeds anyway. He told us don't worry about it, but it's the property management company I'm worried about.
Thanks for the advice. We'll do the best we can. We're not trying to screw anybody. Both of us have done rental turnovers so we know how to clean it. It's the stuff we can't do physically, like the gutters and windows, and the landscaping. Also, outdoor lights are on a 2nd story. They used to change them but stopped and said it was our responsibility. So even if we paid someone to get the property back in shape it would cost us the entire $1650 anyway. So we figure just let the property company keep the deposit and do it.
OK - I got a copy of the lease. It does say we need to professionally clean the carpets. So that's on us.
We regularly shampoo the carpets with our own carpet cleaner but we have not had them professionally cleaned. But there are some other issues, so let me focus on these.
We live in California.
Yes - everything is very old.
I need to clarify about the screens. They don't have holes. The screen on the slider is separating from the frame. This is only from opening and closing the door.
Several tabs that hold the plastic hanging vertical blinds have broken just from use - so some panels are missing.
The carpet was really old when we moved in and is now nearly disintegrating and the linoleum floors were old and stained and lifting in some areas when we moved in.
The problem with cleaning the windows is that they are high on the 2nd floor, we are old, and can't reach them. I guess we'll have to hire someone.
The landlord cleans the gutters every year - we have not been required to.
The biggest problem I'm concerned about is the landscaping. When we moved in there was quite a bit. But with the drought, no one has kept up their landscaping. We all stopped watering several years ago and no one is watering now. The lease specifies we keep up the landscaping. The property is pretty large. There was a 20-yard x 10-yard lawn when we moved in. That is completely gone. Just replacing that and the other landscaping will probably eat up the entire $1650 deposit. And now I'm worried we'll be liable for even more. This could be bad.
That brings up a good point...What is proper when dealing with a drought or watering restrictions/drought? It would have been a civil infraction to water her yard and keep that part of the lease.
That brings up a good point...What is proper when dealing with a drought or watering restrictions/drought? It would have been a civil infraction to water her yard and keep that part of the lease.
Exactly, hence the reason why the OP really needs to consult with a good legal source who is very familiar with the laws in CA and has experience handling these types of matters. There are a lot of gray areas that really could go either way and OP needs an expert who can sort out every detail that OP has concerns with.
The mansger of my bouildying wants to change linoleum instead of carpet. There is no need to change the carpet I kept it in good condition. Only the entrance is needs to be change and replace for linoleum. Can she made me change my the entire apt. Carpet for linoleum if I dont want to???
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