What can a landlord legally charge upon moving out? (CA) (tenants, security deposit)

[Patsnation34]

Why can’t he barge you for his labor? As long as he’s charging a fair hourly wage.

[anrev]

Originally Posted by bingo983

Additionally, I wasn't really given an itemized list of things that needed to be fixed or cleaned at the pre-inspection.

All I was given was an email listing a few items to clean. They're charging me for things that they claim needed deep cleaning or that were broken, but these items were never mentioned beforehand. So I had no chance to address the items before the final move out.

And when I was handing over the keys, my mom and I were still in the middle of moving things out. The property owner insisted on changing the locks and was physically in our way while we were still trying to get the last few items out.

good for your landlord. You really need to be told how and what to clean? How about leave the place how you found it.

Not everyone wants to live with pet hair and stench. Im sure you think your apartment was clean, but you lived there and grew used to the smell......People say that all the time "oh my place smells great" and you walk in and yuck....

Some people are very allergic to dogs, why should the next tennant have to potentially suffer. Have you ever owned property? or been a landlord? Than you have no clue what is reasonable. It seems you have no clue, in general. :-/

[Patsnation34]

Originally Posted by CALGUY

Before I say another word, let this be a lesson to you.
Never give any keys back until you have had a walk through with the manager/owner.
Take pictures before leaving.
When you get to your new place, the first thing you need to do is take pictures, and save them.
Now, the only requirement the landlord has, is to give you an itemized list of work performed, materials used, items replaced, and the cost incurred, showing what amount was taken from the security deposit, and the amount being returned to you.
What may sound ridiculous to you, is more than likely a legitimate expense.

As for a couple of the items you mentioned(wall switches. window blinds).
Because you had an animal in the unit, the landlord has every right to do a complete cleaning(even to the point of removing electrical switch plates.)
As for the blinds, if they were left in operable condition, and clean, how are you going to prove that with out pictures?
The landlord is within his/her right to replace the carpet if it has been damaged, regardless of what "life" is left in it.
More often than not, when damaged by animal urine, or feces, it is beyond cleaning.
As for the labor involved, the landlord must charge a fair and reasonable price, even if he/she does the work, instead of hiring it out to someone.
That is called"market value".

Now, as for pest control, again, the landlord has the right o remove fleas that could be hiding in cracks in the flooring under the carpet, cracks in the woodwork, hiding in cabinets etc.
When fleas lay eggs, they are by the thousands.
More than likely the unit has them everywhere.
Judging from your statements. I would concur the landlord is due the monies he/she is claiming.

Let me tell you an experience I had many years ago in one of my rental units.
Back then I allowed pets.
One of my tenants had two small dogs, and the only time I ever saw those dogs outside was at night when the tenant got home from work.
She lived there four years.
When she vacated , the filth, and stench in the unit was obnoxious to say the least.
Her security deposit was $350.00.
Back then, rents were low, and so were move in charges.
Well, upon inspection of the unit, not only did I have to replace the carpet, because it was actually rotted because of the urine, I had to replace all the hardwood floor because of the same reason, and a half dozen of the floor joist as well.
Total cost to refurbish that house was over $10,000.

I could have taken her to court to recoup my loses, but decided to just chalk it up to experience, and needles to say, pets are not allowed in any of my properties.

Most tenants have no idea what "clean" means when they are vacating a rental.
I tell all my tenants when they move in, that part of their security deposit is going to be used to refurbish the unit when they move out, so not to clean the unit before moving.

Oh, one more thing I wanted to add, when I have a unit ready for rental, I take pictures, date them, and put them in a file.
Just an added insurance for me.

Bob.

Can you do that? Tell a tenant up front they won’t be getting a portion of their security deposit back?

Normally, the LL doesn’t get to “refurbish” the unit on the tenants dime.

[JanND]

OP.....On the front page of the "renting" forum, at the top of the thread list is a "stickie" it is a thread that lists links to various states landlord/tenant laws. That might help you find the statutes. Putting link here State Landlord Tenant Laws

For all those of you saying the OP is wrong to fight some of these charges, including LL labor......The LL has to first prove he needed to do the labor before he can charge for it. And, there has to be an itemized list of damages along with the refund or explanation of charges to OP with in 30 days.

OP....Go after this person, and make sure to go after the treble damages mentioned by the previous poster.

Good luck

[bingo983]

Originally Posted by DKM

How much was your security deposit?

My security deposit was $2,000.

[bingo983]

Originally Posted by anrev

good for your landlord. You really need to be told how and what to clean? How about leave the place how you found it.

Not everyone wants to live with pet hair and stench. Im sure you think your apartment was clean, but you lived there and grew used to the smell......People say that all the time "oh my place smells great" and you walk in and yuck....

Some people are very allergic to dogs, why should the next tennant have to potentially suffer. Have you ever owned property? or been a landlord? Than you have no clue what is reasonable. It seems you have no clue, in general. :-/

There's really no need to be so snarky. If you can't contribute to the conversation, I respectfully ask that you move on to another post.

And, yes, I have been a landlord. I owned property for 10 years in Florida and never charged tenants for such ridiculous items as this landlord has.

[bingo983]

Originally Posted by JanND

OP.....On the front page of the "renting" forum, at the top of the thread list is a "stickie" it is a thread that lists links to various states landlord/tenant laws. That might help you find the statutes. Putting link here State Landlord Tenant Laws

For all those of you saying the OP is wrong to fight some of these charges, including LL labor......The LL has to first prove he needed to do the labor before he can charge for it. And, there has to be an itemized list of damages along with the refund or explanation of charges to OP with in 30 days.

OP....Go after this person, and make sure to go after the treble damages mentioned by the previous poster.

Good luck

Thank you, Jan, for your support and informative post. I tried accessing that document before I posted on here, from this site and several others. For some reason the link doesn't work. I keep getting this error:

Not Found
The requested URL /publications/landlordbook/index.shtml was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


I'll probably have to go to the library to see if I can find the information there. I've been able to find California Civil Code 1950.5 which discusses the security deposit, but there are some ambiguities that I'd like clarification on.

[bingo983]

Originally Posted by Patsnation34

Why can’t he barge you for his labor? As long as he’s charging a fair hourly wage.

I'm in agreement with you. I think it's reasonable to be charged for some labor at a fair wage. But when my dad brought that up, I decided to investigate a little. He pointed out that since a professional service wasn't hired for the services, there's no way to be sure how long it took the landlord. And truth be told, some of these hours he's charging me for seem ridiculous. One of the invoices is for 7 hours of labor to clean the doors. It was a 1 bd/1 ba apartment. And my mom and I worked all day to clean the apartment before I vacated the apartment. There's no way the 4 doors in the apartment were so dirty that they took 7 hours to clean.

[bingo983]

Originally Posted by bellhead

I landlord here are a few hard & fast rules...

1.) The carpet... Carpet has a loose & fast rule about a 7 year lifespan. As a landlord the IRS allows a 7 year depreciation value on the carpet, if it's more than 7 years old there is no value in the carpet & he would have a hard time convincing a housing judge it has any value. Wear & tear.

2.) The cleaning was excessive, most housing courts will have a set amount you can charge. Usually $200 to $300... Unless you left the apartment trashed where the landlord had to get a dumpster.

3.) Blinds, once again wear & tear plus depreciation. Also he can't charge you for all 5. I just had a turnover & it was $45 for a replacement blind, $35 plus $10 labor, the newer ones slide in & out.

4.) Tell the landlord to provide proof as to why the pest service is needed.

Your on the clock & need to respond with a demand letter to return the rest of your security deposit. If he doesn't return the deposit you have the option to sue him in court, California allows 3X damages on security deposit.

Thank you for your very helpful post.

I have a question about the flea issue. My dogs were always on flea medication and I can show proof of the purchases I made from the vet for each monthly dose. I was always diligent in keeping my apartment free of any sort of critters -- fleas, especially.

The landlord charged me $150 for flea/pest control. While I lived there, I never encountered any pests. Most of my previous landlords required I buy flea foggers/bombs for the apartment upon move-out. Those are considerably cheaper ($10-$15 each) than the $150 I am being charged. However, this landlord made no mention of it after our pre-move out inspection. Do you think it would be reasonable to ask them to charge me the amount of the flea fogger/bomb? I feel like hiring a professional service was overkill, particularly since I left the apartment free of any debris or bugs. What's your opinion?

Furthermore, the landlord never installed a door sweep on the doors. So there was a large gap between the the ground and bottom of the doors. It wasn't uncommon for me to have crickets crawl in through the gap. For all I know, fleas or other pests could've accessed the apartment after I vacated the unit and before they entered the unit to do any cleaning or repairs.

[CALGUY]

Originally Posted by Patsnation34

Can you do that? Tell a tenant up front they won’t be getting a portion of their security deposit back?

Normally, the LL doesn’t get to “refurbish” the unit on the tenants dime.

Where have you been renting.
Cleaning fees have been charged for the last 50 years that I know of here in Los Angeles.

Bob.