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I lived in an apartment for 2 1/2 years and just moved out recently. Several months before we moved our water heater exploded and basically flooded our master bedroom, dining room, main hallway and part of the living room. The only part not flooded was the rest of the living room a small hallway and the second bedroom.
They came pretty quick and replaced the water heater and tried to suck up the water with a shop vac and then pulled up the carpet and pad and left a giant fan for blowing underneath. They didn't come back to check on it for over a week and I was basically responsible with moving the fan around so it could reach all the separate areas during that time. It never really dried properly, and when they finally came to take the fan and put the carpet back down they didn't do it properly and it was peeling back against several walls the very next day and nothing felt completely dry and the carpet smelt weird.
So several months later we bought a house and moved out and now we are getting a bill for replacing the carpet for $1200. They said its a prorated amount because we had several stains and it does take into account the water damage. I fully admit with two small children we had several stains and figured we would be responsible for something but not that much.
My defense is that with the water damage they were replacing ALL of the carpet regardless of the stains. They weren't going to just replace the damaged area and not the last room, especially if there was mold as I suspect there was. They are saying if there was no water damage then they would have to replace all the carpet anyways and it would be 100% our responsibility.. Stains or Water Damage. Which came first? Does it even matter?
I would think it was just their bad luck that there happened to be significant water damage and any underlying damage is superseded by the major occurance.
Now I would be willing to pay a small portion because I understand that we contributed to the carpet damage, but technically I don't think I should have to pay anything in light of the events.
Does any one have any similar experiences and can offer some advice?
P.S. An analogy I was thinking of would be if I had a car which was insured and my neighbor backed into it causing damage to the driver side door and front fender, but that very night someone steals my car, strips it, burns it and dumps it... Now the insurance company isn't going to make my neighbor pay for the damage to the door before they payout for the entire car which is now totaled.... ??? Analogous, yes?
I have no idea how car insurance would handle that situation. I know that when I have had tenants that were unfortunate enough to be renting when something went wrong I would prorate the amount of the costs that were passed on to them, pretty standard.
Is if possible that had you been super diligent in moving around the blow the pad would have dried perfectly and not gotten all funky smelling? Maybe. Is it further possible that had been absolutely spotless in addition to great on the maintenance that the carpet would not have needed to be replaced? Possibily.
It does not sound like the landlord is being overly harsh here, and I suppose that $1200 is a lot of dough, but I would not be surprised if the cost was considerably higher than that.
Lesson learned? Water heaters need to be close to a drain / catch pan. With that there would have been no such issue...
Interesting one. I like your analogy, very vicious. The car didn't just get stolen, it also got stripped, burned and dumped.
Anyway...the landlord has to prorate over the expected life of the carpet. In most cases, rental grade carpet is only allowed to be prorated over 5 years (sometimes 7). Assuming that is the case, and you lived there for 2.5 years, the LL can't charge you for more than 1/2 of the cost to replace anyway, assuming the carpet was new when you moved in.
Now, the last time we had carpet replaced, it was about $2000 for a 1400 sq.ft house, but we put slightly better than rental grade carpet in. Adjust for size and quality. I would guess that the last apartment I lived in, which was about 850 sq.ft., and had very cheap carpet, probably only cost about $1000-$1200 total to recarpet.
Couple of questions. Did they reimburse you in any way for the inconvenience of having to deal with all this? Did they reimburse you for the extra power used to run all the fans (assuming you pay your power bill)? If not, as a LL, I would call it a wash and not hold any out.
If you were compensated for any of that at the time, then I would feel justified with a small charge because of carpet stains, but not $1200 worth, which would be almost the full replacement cost. I'd probably charge $100-$150.
So, unless the apartment is a lot larger than what your description sounded like, or unless there were many many stains, I think $1200 is extremely excessive, and possibly illegal. Worst case scenerio, they can't charge you more than 50% of the total replace cost because of the length of time you lived there.
I don't know the install date of the carpet, I have asked for them to provide that, but I do know it was not a new install prior to us moving in. And this person who is contacting me on their behalf is stating she thinks the carpet is 10-15yr carpet, which is obsurd. I worked in Apartment Maintenance for 3 years and installed/repaired everything including carpet, lino, paint, appliances, etc. and am quite aware of the difference between any carpet rated under 10 years and anything over. Which is kind of why I'm flustered and more or less ranting about it here on this board. Feels like they are just playing me.
The apartment was 2bd/2ba, I believe it was 1024sqft. Not sure how much of that was carpet though. Entry way, kitchen and both bathrooms were lino. Maybe 900. Maybe less.
No we were not reimbursed for anything... and yes we paid for our own utilities. Additionally, over the course of our stay, it took them 5+ visits to finally fix our dryer which was burning and ripping our clothes (also not reimbursed). It took 5 visits to unsuccessfully repair our laundry room folding doors, before I went to home depot and fixed it myself (not reimbursed). It took them 3 visits before I clued them in that the sink trap and putty needed to be replaced when they were fixing our leaky sink. We were continually invaded with ants over the same 2 1/2 yr period where they said they couldn't do anything more then spray with what they had during their 10+ visits.. but suggested we go get harsher chemicals and spray ourselves. (not reimbursed)
And I never would have made a peep if it had been $150... even after all that.
Oh and I guess I'm forgetting that's on top of not getting our $500 security deposit back.
Sorry for the venting. After spending 30minutes on the phone with this lady that called my work and basically regurgitate fundamental untruths to me, it got me riled up.
Thanks for all of the replies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacerta
Interesting one. I like your analogy, very vicious. The car didn't just get stolen, it also got stripped, burned and dumped.
Anyway...the landlord has to prorate over the expected life of the carpet. In most cases, rental grade carpet is only allowed to be prorated over 5 years (sometimes 7). Assuming that is the case, and you lived there for 2.5 years, the LL can't charge you for more than 1/2 of the cost to replace anyway, assuming the carpet was new when you moved in.
Now, the last time we had carpet replaced, it was about $2000 for a 1400 sq.ft house, but we put slightly better than rental grade carpet in. Adjust for size and quality. I would guess that the last apartment I lived in, which was about 850 sq.ft., and had very cheap carpet, probably only cost about $1000-$1200 total to recarpet.
Couple of questions. Did they reimburse you in any way for the inconvenience of having to deal with all this? Did they reimburse you for the extra power used to run all the fans (assuming you pay your power bill)? If not, as a LL, I would call it a wash and not hold any out.
If you were compensated for any of that at the time, then I would feel justified with a small charge because of carpet stains, but not $1200 worth, which would be almost the full replacement cost. I'd probably charge $100-$150.
So, unless the apartment is a lot larger than what your description sounded like, or unless there were many many stains, I think $1200 is extremely excessive, and possibly illegal. Worst case scenerio, they can't charge you more than 50% of the total replace cost because of the length of time you lived there.
umm when I call service master for a carpet dry /clean up job .. THEY check the fans ,, THEY make sure the carpets or underlayment are dry .. not the tenant ..
if it was the building mantince man he shoulda been up there checking and checking andf moving those fans .. that would be his job not the tenants
and if you had lived in one of my building I would have offered you a tempary apt or a motel till the work was done .. flat out ..
any one relize the noise level of those dryer fans ? Service master wears ear protection when they are in the same room as the fans
I think the charges are way way to much for the facts given .. seems that the LL is trying to get new carpets on your wallet ..
I don't know the install date of the carpet, I have asked for them to provide that, but I do know it was not a new install prior to us moving in. And this person who is contacting me on their behalf is stating she thinks the carpet is 10-15yr carpet, which is obsurd. I worked in Apartment Maintenance for 3 years and installed/repaired everything including carpet, lino, paint, appliances, etc. and am quite aware of the difference between any carpet rated under 10 years and anything over. Which is kind of why I'm flustered and more or less ranting about it here on this board. Feels like they are just playing me.
The apartment was 2bd/2ba, I believe it was 1024sqft. Not sure how much of that was carpet though. Entry way, kitchen and both bathrooms were lino. Maybe 900. Maybe less.
No we were not reimbursed for anything... and yes we paid for our own utilities. Additionally, over the course of our stay, it took them 5+ visits to finally fix our dryer which was burning and ripping our clothes (also not reimbursed). It took 5 visits to unsuccessfully repair our laundry room folding doors, before I went to home depot and fixed it myself (not reimbursed). It took them 3 visits before I clued them in that the sink trap and putty needed to be replaced when they were fixing our leaky sink. We were continually invaded with ants over the same 2 1/2 yr period where they said they couldn't do anything more then spray with what they had during their 10+ visits.. but suggested we go get harsher chemicals and spray ourselves. (not reimbursed)
And I never would have made a peep if it had been $150... even after all that.
Oh and I guess I'm forgetting that's on top of not getting our $500 security deposit back.
Sorry for the venting. After spending 30minutes on the phone with this lady that called my work and basically regurgitate fundamental untruths to me, it got me riled up.
Thanks for all of the replies.
Whether the carpet actually is 5, 10 or 15 year carpet is irrelevant. Everyplace I have seen LLs or Tenants talk about on here, either state law, or the courts have said that you can only prorate over a given time period, usually either 5 or 7 years. We put in 10+ year carpet also, but are not allowed to prorate over the whole 10 years.
I was going to guess from your description that you were probably between 1000 and 1200 sq.ft. Ok, so if they are putting in really nice carpet and pad, and in a higher cost of living area, they may be as high as $1600-$1800 total cost. If they are spending more than that, they are throwing their money away. Especially in this economy, where labor is cheap. We could have that done for $1200 with good carpet. So, high end, say they are paying $1800. The MOST they could charge you is $900, and that is for your share of full replacement cost if the carpets were new at move in, which you say they were not. I think you are being seriously overcharged.
For your expenses, it sounds like your maintenance guys are flakes. However, we wont pay for ant treatment either, first of all because by far the best way to get rid of them is the cheap black plastic ant houses from any hardware store (which we will provide if asked), and secondly, because they only come inside in large numbers if there is a food source. Clean up the food source, put down a few ant traps, and there will be no more ants within a couple of days. If you don't get rid of the food source, no amount of treatment will help. Overall though, if you had that list of expenses, I wouldn't charge you anything for the carpet.
And I agree with Faworki that placement, movement, correct usage of the fans is not the tenants responsibility. Unless the LL told me to move the fans, I wouldn't have touched them as the tenant. Of course, that means that the tenant either has to be available to let the maintenance people in 24/7 or give permission for them to use their key without notice.
I would suggest first of all looking into your local laws, see if your state has a summary available (mine came from the Office of the Attorney General), and if you can't find the answers, contact a local rental attorney and see if you can get a free consultation to get some answers.
I would contest it... you were also a victim of the water heater calamity as well as the property owner.
Going out on a limb, I will say with certainty, I'm confident I could present the case in a factual, non-threatening way to convince a small claims judge to dismiss.
You were also inconvenience and suffered loss...
I've had tenants move and I told them not to bother having the carpets cleaned as it was scheduled to be replaced.
because (ants) only come inside in large numbers if there is a food source.
Funny story, I once had an invasion of little black ants in my bathroom. I was burning a Christmasy scented candle in there, one of the ones that smells like baked goods. I walked in to check on it and found an amazing trail of ants that were marching in from between the shower tiles, out the tub, across the floor, up the counter, and were circling the candle, totally confused. It actually took about a month of killing strays before I finally convinced them that there was no food in my bathroom.
To the OP - they are trying to scam you, hoping you won't challenge it. Don't let them get away with it. The carpet received major water damage that was not caused by you, they should have to eat it. It might be appropriate to charge you a small amount for the stains, but even that is iffy since the stains did not change the fact that the carpet had no more usable life due to pervasive water damage and mildew.
I think you need to tell the landlord that YOU are taking HIM to small claims court.
Actually, you need to follow the correct steps according to your state laws. In my state, the correct procedure would be to send a certified notice to the landlord stating your objection to the charge and what you think is fair and reasonable. The landlord has 3 days to comply and either respond in writing, or send you what you asked for. If they respond with a no, or don't respond at all, THEN you take them to small claims court.
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