All Over the Map with Retirement Location (retiree, family, wife)
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I feel silly still not knowing exactly where "there is". Since this is the (your) "all over the map" thread -- can you map (generally speaking) for us where this is?
Absoutely great post by the way.
"Here" is Massachusetts, better known as Western New England.
We've learned that all regions (not so much towns or cities -- but regions) have the sociological reputations they have (both positive and negative) for a reason. History, weather, religion, geography, folklore, ethnicity, local educational insitutions, topography, etc., it all feeds into what is the current regional culture and the reputation of a region. The real question, in our own hindsight, is whether or not it's a reputation or a stereotype that would matter to us personally.
I guess I'm finding "regional differences" to be less and less true, but then again, I have not lived in that many regions (only a handful). For example, people are fond of saying that this or that state or region is "redneck." Well, travel an hour (sometimes even 15 min) from any highbrow, cultured place in the U.S., just a bit outside of the more educated, artsy cultural areas, and you find that element quickly enough. But even then, there's so many assumptions that one would need to see past. For example, in these parts there is a large truck-driving, arms bearing, small-town rural/farming population that one might expect to be not so highly educated or "culturally aware." But in some of these towns can be found farmers who play in chamber music groups, have been published in some prestigious literary journals, and give readings in barns, etc. Just because they live in a certain area and in a certain way does not mean they can have a certain label applied to them. Some of the talk at some diners is also a lot more edifying than in four-star restaurants. On the other hand I've been around plenty of well to do folks I wouldn't get into an elevator with, I don't care how fine their property. Just sayin'.
I think towns are different and all of newenglandgirl's insightful observations ring true. I do, however, think there is a regional culture that is the foundation of -- and permeates -- the culture of every town. Particularly the South and New England most definitely -- but also the Pacific Northwest, Alaska (I give AK it's own region culturally) the Midwest and California. We've lived in each over the past 50+ years.
True, although retirement communities can often be exceptions since they tend to attract people from around the country. Yet again Hot Springs Village AR springs to mind as an example. (I really don't mean to sound obsessed with this place, it's just funny how often my observations there apply to questions here). Anyway, HSV is a massive retirement community in the middle of Arkansas. It's mostly populated by people who have moved from New York, the great lakes regions, and California. There are fairly few people from Arkansas who move there because (for the area) it's pricey. The community is large enough that it's developed it's own personality markedly different from the surrounding towns (especially when it comes to politics, religions, and general vibe).
Also, some cities are changing personalities as a result of changing demographics related to the recession. My state, Virginia, for example, once had much more of a southern vibe. But in the last decade droves of people from the north east and California have been moving here, and the vibe is much different. A lot of these people didn't really want to leave California, and as a result they brought it with them. It's having a definite influence on the local culture. They've brought their favorite stores, restaurants, and businesses; they've influenced the way people dress, how we deal with traffic, urban design, even little things like how traffic signs look or whether or not people chat while in a grocery store line.
Where I live, a standard question is "is northern VA southern or northern." These days the answer is "Californian." It's a joke... but one of those jokes that's funny because it's true.
"Here" is Massachusetts, better known as Western New England.
I know, but where in Mass? We have Newburyport on the earliest list, for example. We're exploring the North and South Shores, Cape Cod -- virtually most of state on or near the coastline. I'm thinking you know alot about the whole area. It's so big it's hard to know where to start in terms of scouting trips.
I guess I'm finding "regional differences" to be less and less true, but then again, I have not lived in that many regions (only a handful). For example, people are fond of saying that this or that state or region is "redneck." Well, travel an hour (sometimes even 15 min) from any highbrow, cultured place in the U.S., just a bit outside of the more educated, artsy cultural areas, and you find that element quickly enough. But even then, there's so many assumptions that one would need to see past. For example, in these parts there is a large truck-driving, arms bearing, small-town rural/farming population that one might expect to be not so highly educated or "culturally aware." But in some of these towns can be found farmers who play in chamber music groups, have been published in some prestigious literary journals, and give readings in barns, etc. Just because they live in a certain area and in a certain way does not mean they can have a certain label applied to them. Some of the talk at some diners is also a lot more edifying than in four-star restaurants. On the other hand I've been around plenty of well to do folks I wouldn't get into an elevator with, I don't care how fine their property. Just sayin'.
This is not at all about class distinction. This is about the regional "quilt" of our country. I'm saying there's more to a move than choosing a different climate. You don't pick up one day and move your beach chair from Miami to Alaska and think that everything else in terms of how one assimilates into a community is going to be pretty much the same.
I'm not talking about the arts or music when I refer to cultural differences and similarities. And most definitely I'm not referring to social classes or money. I'm referring to regional styles and customs of relating to community and whether one will find it easy to assimilate based on similar styles and preferred customs. I'm talking about the fact that in New England, for example, anyone will pull your car out of ditch for you, yet you might know them for ten years and never share a meal. And your local lobsterman might (make that probably) has a PhD. The town council is "what's happenin'" in terms of the social scene and unless you were born here and never left, you're "from away".
Now some people thinking about retirement are going to love those customs and styles of engagement while others will find it difficult or undesirable.
Has nothing to do with rednecks labels, or diners vs. four-star restaurants.
I think there is a notion that America is much more homogenous than it really is. It's much more a tapestry of very distinct regions. That's what makes us so interesting and unique -- and why it can take a whole lifetime to explore the entire U.S.
Also, some cities are changing personalities as a result of changing demographics related to the recession. My state, Virginia, for example, once had much more of a southern vibe. But in the last decade droves of people from the north east and California have been moving here, and the vibe is much different. A lot of these people didn't really want to leave California, and as a result they brought it with them. It's having a definite influence on the local culture. They've brought their favorite stores, restaurants, and businesses; they've influenced the way people dress, how we deal with traffic, urban design, even little things like how traffic signs look or whether or not people chat while in a grocery store line.
Where I live, a standard question is "is northern VA southern or northern." These days the answer is "Californian." It's a joke... but one of those jokes that's funny because it's true.
That's fascinating. We lived in Fairfax county for ten years from '83 to '93. My DH is originally from Montgomery county. The nation's capital makes that area both highly cosmopolitan and very migratory. Every four or eight years a significant percentage of our neighborhood would migrate in and out with the change in administration.
The influx of Californians makes me grin because they same is true of my hometown, Seattle. Californians are high influence when it comes to bringing about change it seems.
On a related sidenote, NoVa is one of the few areas the recessionary economy moved people in, evidently. There was a recent article in Forbes (IIRC the media correctly) that relocation, and particularly retirement relocation has slowed down substantially as a result of the economy. No surprise about NoVa though -- always one of the most stable jobs markets in the nation! Athough has the congestion worsened?
Also, some cities are changing personalities as a result of changing demographics related to the recession. My state, Virginia, for example, once had much more of a southern vibe. But in the last decade droves of people from the north east and California have been moving here, and the vibe is much different. A lot of these people didn't really want to leave California, and as a result they brought it with them. It's having a definite influence on the local culture. They've brought their favorite stores, restaurants, and businesses; they've influenced the way people dress, how we deal with traffic, urban design, even little things like how traffic signs look or whether or not people chat while in a grocery store line.
Where I live, a standard question is "is northern VA southern or northern." These days the answer is "Californian." It's a joke... but one of those jokes that's funny because it's true.
I have to agree with you there. We have been vacationing in Virginia for almost 20 years and my husband and I have seen the changes as well. We used to stay 3 or 4 nights in Old Town Alexandria before heading south - Alexandria has always had somewhat of a yuppy, California vibe to us but further south in Williamsburg the change has been quite dramatic. Colonial Williamsburg used to have the most charming shopping area with independent businesses - a department store - Casey's. It was unique and fun to shop there. There was also an old fashioned pharmacy with a lunch counter, a couple of nice women's clothing stores (one is still there)....they have brought in Barnes & Noble, Talbots, Chicos, Williams Sanoma - really sad to me because these are shops that most have near their homes...at least they still have Shirley Pewter.
I agree with you on all. I meant my post in a positive way, and did not in any way think you were making class distinctions. I meant that America is America in most places, we are a diverse "quilt" of a country. Some of my friends would not live in certain places because they think it's not their style. What I was trying to get across is that there are SO many styles in one place, something I personally had to learn, as I moved to different regions. It took me a very long time to adjust to the Midwest, but I had to be there because of a job. I wanted to write it off, but by the time I had to leave I had met so many people with my interests that it was hard to go. It's really quite a mix in most places. On the other hand, I do believe there are places where one just doesn't seem comfortable mostly because not welcomed, seen as an outsider, or shunned. That's a clear flag to move on. As a former journalist, the curiosity about people and their customs fascinates me, and I wish I could have lived in many more places in the U.S. when younger to experience more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday1
This is not at all about class distinction. This is about the regional "quilt" of our country. I'm saying there's more to a move than choosing a different climate. You don't pick up one day and move your beach chair from Miami to Alaska and think that everything else in terms of how one assimilates into a community is going to be pretty much the same.
I'm not talking about the arts or music when I refer to cultural differences and similarities. And most definitely I'm not referring to social classes or money. I'm referring to regional styles and customs of relating to community and whether one will find it easy to assimilate based on similar styles and preferred customs. I'm talking about the fact that in New England, for example, anyone will pull your car out of ditch for you, yet you might know them for ten years and never share a meal. And your local lobsterman might (make that probably) has a PhD. The town council is "what's happenin'" in terms of the social scene and unless you were born here and never left, you're "from away".
Now some people thinking about retirement are going to love those customs and styles of engagement while others will find it difficult or undesirable.
Has nothing to do with rednecks labels, or diners vs. four-star restaurants.
I think there is a notion that America is much more homogenous than it really is. It's much more a tapestry of very distinct regions. That's what makes us so interesting and unique -- and why it can take a whole lifetime to explore the entire U.S.
That's fascinating. We lived in Fairfax county for ten years from '83 to '93.
Have you been back since then? If not you might not recognize the place. Some parts of Fairfax are still the same. But other parts are substantially more built up than they were in '93. The Dulles Tech Corridor took off big time, and medical research is starting to be big here. Tysons Corner, Rt. 28 and the Govt. Center have seen explosive growth. If you really want a surprise, take a look at what Reston looks like now: Reston Oh, and Merrifield is sprouting an artsy and dense mixed use district. You probably remember Loudoun as being mostly rural. It's now built up all the way to Leesburg. All planned town center type communities, parkways, large interchanges, and large corporate campuses. Kind of reminds me of Orange County. It's the wealthiest county in the US--who'd have thunk!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday1
The influx of Californians makes me grin because they same is true of my hometown, Seattle. Californians are high influence when it comes to bringing about change it seems.
Yup. I personally like the changes in northern VA so I've decided homogeneity has it's advantages. But it's true that Loudoun County lost much of the southern vibe we once had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday1
Athough has the congestion worsened?
Since '93? Definitely. Especially right now because they're extending the metro out to Ashburn and building/widening roads as fast as they can. Construction causes mucho congestion and then some. Still, this year we dropped down to 4th or 5th on the list of cities with worst traffic. Last year we were #2, so it's getting better.
I know, but where in Mass? We have Newburyport on the earliest list, for example. We're exploring the North and South Shores, Cape Cod -- virtually most of state on or near the coastline. I'm thinking you know alot about the whole area. It's so big it's hard to know where to start in terms of scouting trips.
I spent a good deal of youth in Boston, including going to school there. I am near the Berkshires now. I would suggest exploring Ipswich, it is a very nice community right on the coast and a stone's throw to both Boston and Maine, as well as NH.
Newburyport is delightful and pricey. The downtown is real New England, with brick streets and lamplit shops. It has one of the loveliest parks I've ever been in. And the feel of history and the sea....I'd live there in a minute.
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