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We live in Des Moines. I've lived here my entire life. While it's great place to live (seriously, it is), it's not a great place to retire. COL is a bit on the high side and pension taxation is, too. You get the high humidity/hot summers like you do down south, but you're also stuck with the sometimes horrendous winters.
A little story about heat and humidity. Mrs. Tek was in Jacksonville, FL twice for classes. Once in July, and once in August (different years). Everyone was complaining about how hot and humid it was, but it was hotter and more humid here when we left and after we returned.
Might as well live somewhere that the winters don't suck.
If you are always on the internet what does it matter where you retire. When you are retired, you have less of a reason to leave your house.
If you are always before your computer monitor or a TV, what does it matter.
It matters not what the difference in weather--you create your own indoor climate. It matters not what amenities are offered because all you want and know is in your house. It matters not what nature offers for good or what nature offers for bad, for you choose not to experience the Great Outdoors, as your life is the Great Indoors.
If your big concern is the electronic media then the only criteria you should use to measure places to retire is whether you can get high speed internet access and a good satellite or cable TV. It is available in all those ciites.
If your whole existence is indoors and your life revolves around the electronics amusements in their house--why would you bother to care.
I am not trying to insult or criticize anyone's lifestyle but why pretend to need and measure all these different characteristics of these area when it matters not where one sits to live and lives to sit, ensconced in a indoor world that can be created anywhere.
For those who think that I am being arrogant, I also ask myself the same question about my own life and places that I have called home and places that I wish to call home. Where is the big differences in place, if I do not take advantage or need or want those varied differences of place.
Livecontent
I agree...I no longer can take advantage of any of the great outdoor stuff in New England...skiing, snowshoeing, strenuous hiking, white water rafting, etc. I spend about an hour a day outdoors, and it's on very local trails/parks. For this I could live anywhere. In super humid summers I have to walk before 8 a.m. or after 8 p.m. If it weren't for family here and some degree of happy familiarity, I'd move to a lower COL area. My days indoors involve editorial work, reading, Netflix movies, the internet, grooming the dog, hanging out the laundry, and watching various people mow my lawn from the porch. I do a small garden, but that can be done anywhere along with most of my other daily stuff.
Of the list of places that was presented in the OP, I could live in just about any of them if in a decent neighborhood close to stores, library, etc. It would be easier to be just dropped in to one of these places than to choose it, however.
ETA: not fracking, Nuke, chem mfg, or superfund site areas
We live in Des Moines. I've lived here my entire life. While it's great place to live (seriously, it is), it's not a great place to retire. COL is a bit on the high side and pension taxation is, too. You get the high humidity/hot summers like you do down south, but you're also stuck with the sometimes horrendous winters.
A little story about heat and humidity. Mrs. Tek was in Jacksonville, FL twice for classes. Once in July, and once in August (different years). Everyone was complaining about how hot and humid it was, but it was hotter and more humid here when we left and after we returned.
Might as well live somewhere that the winters don't suck.
Funny that you mention JAX and Des Moines. One year - my husband got an urge to go to the Iowa State Fair (don't ask me why - he's not a "fried thing on a stick" guy). I thought it might be fun getting out of the hot weather here. But when I saw the weather in Des Moines in August - figured we'd be cooler staying home...
I lived in Houston, TX for 8 years and travelled the state extensively as I worked in sales. Two of my children were born there. My husband and I were born and raised East Coast (NJ and NY). We have also both lived and worked in VA and NC so you understand my perspective, seeing you are from the East coast as well....
Texas is different....
Many people we met were born there and their families were settled from Texas. Many rarely travelled out of the state and never wanted to leave it. They are a mix of southerners, rancher-types, oil-men. Cowboy boots reign...women too, and this is in the downtown, high rise area where I worked 43rd floor of an office buiding. Where on the East Coast you find subshops and pizza places on every corner, in Texas, you find mostly Mexican, Barbecue and fried Catfish outposts. There are some East/North transplants of course...many from the petrochemical business. Some stay and love it. There is a present snowbird population (many RVs) and as you can imagine a large Mexican immigrant population both established and recent.
The big cities (Dallas & Houston) are huge, with sprawling suburbs that have limited mass transit resulting in multiple loops of 10 level high concrete highway structures appearing over flat lands with few trees. You may live within the confines of the suburbs of one of these cities as someone else but actually live in a different climate/topography and 90 minutes away from another person who lives in that same city. Once you get outside of any of the cities...EP, CC, Austin, San Antonio included...there is nothing, and I mean nothing for miles except flatlands, gentle rolling hills, cattle, oil rigs and the occasional gas station/small town. The cities in Texas are generally far apart with a few exceptions...there is no day trip to checkout another city else unless you fly or plan to spend the night. Medical care in the large cities is generally excellent. The downtowns of all of cities are newer, like they sprang out of nowhere with the exception of a few smaller sections like the historical areas of San Antonio. Many cities are trying to build themselves up with transit and downtown activities but I found them mostly to 'roll up' at night. It is not like the big cities back east when it comes to the downtowns bustling at night.
What we liked about TX: Housing is cheap. No state income tax. Very business friendly. People are friendly. Healthcare was more available due to the presence of many 24 hr walk-in clinics and a seemingly less reliance on health-insurance. Crime was very low in the suburbs. Schools in suburbs were all new and huge. You can grow cool tropical plants outside in pots or in the ground..zone 9. Airports in Houston/Dallas get you just about anywhere in the continental US in 3.5 hours or less, most on non-stop flights.
Expenses: Sales tax in Harris Cty/Houston is 8.25%. Homeowners insurance was higher than we pay in NJ (storms/flooding). Auto insurance was lower than we pay in NJ. Obviously our real estate taxes were WAY lower than what we now pay in NJ!
Weather: It is hot there. So hot I swore off living anywhere hot ever again it is seared into my memory forever!!! Rarely opened our windows. The heat would build and be hottest at 6PM. At 10PM it would still be 90+ outside when I'd venture out to get the mail and I'd be dripping with sweat just for a short walk. Ran the AC 10/11 months a year including December when we put up our Christmas Tree. I never got used to it. My inlaws tried coming at Thanksgiving one year and thinking they could golf and it was even too hot for them to golf at Thanksgiving.
I almost forgot the bugs. Big palmetto bugs 2-3 inches long get into the house and you have to hire a professional to spray regularly...approx $400/yr. Build that into the budget.
Oh - Palmetto bugs aren't so bad (although they are huge). I know they freak people out - but they are basically outdoor bugs that occasionally wander inside if you keep windows/doors open. The critters that trouble me are spiders and scorpions - which is why I get quarterly pest service too (and you're right - it costs a little less than $400/year). Note an easy way to remove bugs when you find them. Cover with a plastic container. Slip a clipboard under the container (trapping the bug). Lift and take outside and release the bug (much better than spraying bug spray on your walls/floors).
Peoples' reactions to heat and cold are very variable. I really dislike even the few cold days we have here in the winter much more than I dislike the August heat. Although by September I am really sick of the heat (which is why we often go on vacation then). Weather usually gets pretty pleasant in October. OTOH - my BIL - who lives in Michigan - starts to sweat when it's 60.
I have never lived in Texas - but took a great 8 day vacation there a few years back. Stayed in Dallas/Ft. Worth and Austin. Great food (especially the BBQ in Lockhart) - and there were certainly enough interesting things to do/see to keep us busy for 8 days. The one thing you are dead on about is those freeways in Dallas. I've lived in Miami (no slouch when it comes to traffic) - traveled to cities like Los Angeles - etc. And those freeways in Dallas are amazing. I would program the GPS in the rental car to make "least use of freeways" (so we could see more of the city) - until I realized that not getting on a freeway often turned a 3 mile trip into a 13 mile trip. And that 3 mile trip might involve using 3 different freeways!
And - speaking of traffic - we lived in Miami for 20+ years. I assume the original post (which mentioned the "Miami suburbs") didn't mean the City of Miami proper - which is actually a small part of Miami/Dade County (and one of the poorest cities in the US) - but the metro area in general. And - looking at the entire area - just about all of Miami/Dade County - including the City of Miami (except for some increasingly rare rural areas) is one enormous suburb/slurb. Even in areas with lots of high rise buildings. And the traffic is awful - not only in Miami/Dade but in Broward and Palm Beach counties as well. There's a lot of stuff there - but it's really hard to get to unless you love bumper-to-bumper traffic. That's one of the reasons we left 15 years ago. Another was crime. I wanted to try living in a house (my husband I had never lived in a house after we went to college) - and my husband refused to consider a house there because of the crime.
Which is how we wound up where we are now. In what is basically an upper middle class suburb of JAX. There are good things here. I like Florida weather overall - Florida taxes - being near the weather moderating effects of the ocean. Traffic isn't bad. I love the house we built - our land (and the wildlife that lives on it) - and the particular area where we live. I used to play tennis - and now play golf (this area is excellent for both). We have excellent day-to-day shopping - and excellent medical facilities/care. There are several disappointing things about the area. The restaurant scene (although extensive) is mostly mediocre chain stuff. There is little in the way of high end shopping. And - most important - I think the City of JAX proper - especially downtown - has deteriorated since we moved here (it was never great - but it has gone downhill). We used to enjoy going downtown to concerts (we have a symphony orchestra - and there are many "big name acts" that perform in downtown venues) and shows and museums and the Gator Bowl parade on New Year's Eve and the county fair (held downtown). Today - we find ourselves going downtown less and less. It's an easy drive - but we just find it depressing. We have a small museum of contemporary art downtown that sometimes has interesting exhibits - and there's a nice little park across the street. But the park is inhabited just about 100% with homeless people. And there is cause for concern there since a fair number of homeless people in JAX have been found to have TB. It's too bad - because downtown JAX has an impressive waterfront (on the St. Johns River) and it's going to waste. FWIW - we have friends who like to go to sports events downtown (like Jaguars and Suns - minor league baseball - games) and they feel the same way about downtown that we do. So they'll take a shuttle bus to a Jaguars game - and come home when the game is over.
OTOH - the specific area where we live is quite nice - in perhaps a normal boring kind of way. And there are worse things than normal and boring these days. I don't see us getting out of our current economic malaise anytime soon. I believe that various forms of civil unrest are possible in various areas. And I don't want to be anywhere near them. Don't think I'm unique in that respect. Robyn
I wouldn't comment on that many options if I did have first hand knowledge of them all, so...
Indianapolis - my 2nd choice, coldish winters (lived in IN 24 years)
Jacksonville - lived in Lakeland for 3 years, I'd never go back to FL, but I know that may be a minority view
the Miami suburbs - my BIL lives there, moved from RI, hates Miami area
New Orleans - great place to visit
just about any decent sized city in Texas - if it wasn't for the extreme heat, Austin would be my 1st choice, wonderful city. Dallas is very nice too (lived there 3 years). San Antonio (lived there 4 years) just too hot and inferior to Austin. Houston is nice, but add humidity to Texas heat and WOWZA! Water shortages in the future?
Minneapolis - wonderful place 9 months of the year, can be unbearable in winter. (Sister lived there for many years).
Charlotte - we want to research this one further, looks appealing but I wonder what happens if BoA gets in more trouble.
Raleigh - along with Chapel Hill, Durham, our 1st choice - but the land of suburbs, few walkable areas
Buffalo - have you been there? It will take generations to recover, and winter is brutal, can you say lake effect snow?
Cleveland - they keep trying, and failing to improve the city, Columbus is a much better choice in OH (lived there 10 years)
Phoenix - if you think TX is hot, try AZ! (know two couples who live in AZ, one Phoenix, one Tuscon). You'll see highs over 110F some days, but it's a dry heat And water shortages in the decades ahead?
What we like isn't of much value to anyone else anyway...
I agree...I no longer can take advantage of any of the great outdoor stuff in New England...skiing, snowshoeing, strenuous hiking, white water rafting, etc. I spend about an hour a day outdoors, and it's on very local trails/parks. For this I could live anywhere. In super humid summers I have to walk before 8 a.m. or after 8 p.m. If it weren't for family here and some degree of happy familiarity, I'd move to a lower COL area. My days indoors involve editorial work, reading, Netflix movies, the internet, grooming the dog, hanging out the laundry, and watching various people mow my lawn from the porch. I do a small garden, but that can be done anywhere along with most of my other daily stuff.
Of the list of places that was presented in the OP, I could live in just about any of them if in a decent neighborhood close to stores, library, etc. It would be easier to be just dropped in to one of these places than to choose it, however.
ETA: not fracking, Nuke, chem mfg, or superfund site areas
I do much more of outdoor activities in Parks, Trails and Open Space here in Colorado than where I grew up in New York because there are much more of those natural amenities nearby. The winters are milder and the summers are more pleasant with the low humidity. I will go out more often even though I am much older than when I lived in NY. Yet now I am retired while before I had a heavy work and school obligations. I also now have more restrictions of age and disability but with more time I do try to take advantage of that which is The Great West.
It is very hard to compare one area to another because one is comparing a different time of life when one lived there. Also there is a difference in the life of a place that changes much over time. There is an effort to create trails for biking a hiking in the area where I grew up, when there was not in the past. Also, it must be remembered that in the 1940s and 1950s public pools were minimal as there was the fear of Polio.
My point is that the amenities and difference do you no good, if you do not care to take advantage of them--then you might as well stay where you are. Cost of Living is hard to measure as all areas have micro areas of higher costs and lesser costs and adaptation can be made. The same for safety and quality of life--it can vary block by block and no area is totally bad or totally good. Weather is a difference but you can adapt and mean little if you do not leave the house. I have visited Florida, lived in Texas and some people are happy with intense air conditioning with blinds drawn, just as some people stay warm and never leave the house in the very cold of Buffalo, where I grew up.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 06-07-2012 at 10:34 PM..
My point is that the amenities and difference do you no good, if you do not care to take advantage of them--then you might as well stay where you are. Cost of Living is hard to measure as all areas have micro areas of higher costs and lesser costs and adaptation can be made. The same for safety and quality of life--it can vary block by block and no area is totally bad or totally good. Weather is a difference but you can adapt and mean little if you do not leave the house. I have visited Florida, lived in Texas and some people are happy with intense air conditioning with blinds drawn, just as some people stay warm and never leave the house in the very cold of Buffalo, where I grew up.
Livecontent
There seems to be a big difference, in general, between our physical abilities at age 55-60 and 70. Things I could do 5 years ago, even with my condition, are harder to do now. I have to adjust my self-management continually with each passing year. Of course there are spry 80 year olds fishing, hunting, and rafting, but I will not be one of them. I rarely venture out to the wilds anymore. So do I base my living preferences on how "beautiful it is out there" (in my memory) or on how close the grocery store, library, and post office are? I will see age 70 in 7 years, so I am making choices based on that age and probable condition, while continuing to enjoy the present. My choices have to be practical, not based on the ideas I had when younger and more able. That does not mean that I do not still appreciate the natural beauty of the region, it's just that I'm experiencing it in reality locally instead of "out there."
So as to the OP list of places, it is not practical for me to live in any of these places based on taking full advantage of the city offerings, there are many microcosms within these cities that would allow me the practical amenities I need. IOW, at this age I no longer make blanket judgments about most places. I would move to the place that meets my day to day needs the most. Why contemplate a broad list of faraway places when needs can be met more locally or regionally.
Anything that spurs discussion I find valuable. No telling where that life-changing golden nugget of information will turn up.
I LOVE Pittsburgh and feel it has much to offer retirees. Bang for the buck has to be the best here of any big city. Diversity, distinct neighborhoods, great airport, UPMC, cultural offerings, educational opportunities, no sales tax on clothing (why I loved layovers there back in the day ), the list goes on. True, can be gray. I'd move in a hearbeat if I could get season tickets to the Steelers!
. . .
Yes. My husband and I were seriously thinking about Pittsburgh. I am one o those aging folks who dislike the heat and humidity of the South. We probably would have gotten a condo or town house in Pittsburgh to avoid maintenance issues. One thing we found in our research, which may or may not be true, is that the older population of Pitts. contains a lot of serious and devout Roman Catholics.
One consideration that we had was being near first rate medical facilities and a college, which Pittsburgh has. The crime rate is low, so is the cost of living.
The South turned us off a lot because of attitudes that one associates with the bible belt, though we know this is probably a horrendous generalization. Some places in the South, we read, have their entire social experience centered around the church - and again there is the oppressive heat and humidity.
We finally got an offer that we could not refuse in NYC and if it were not for that we would have taken a trip to Pittsburgh to check it out.
Last edited by goldengrain; 06-08-2012 at 02:57 PM..
On another forum, a person who is apparently trying to talk us out of retiring to Williamsburg is arguing that seniors are more likely to move to the following cities than to coastal VA due to better COL.
Philadelphia,
Indianapolis,
Cincinnati,
St. Louis,
Atlanta,
Jacksonville,
the Miami suburbs,
New Orleans,
just about any decent sized city in Texas,
Oklahoma City,
Minneapolis,
Milwaukee,
Boise,
Des Moines,
Wichita,
Charlotte,
Raleigh,
Pittsburgh,
Buffalo,
Cleveland,
Nashville,
Lexington,
Louisville,
Phoenix
Yes, I know poster was probably just spouting off but given the challenge I'd like to examine each of these cities and see whether or not they actually might be better choices for retirement. Some (like Charlotte) I've already visited and decided weren't right for us, some (like Des Moines) I know relatively little about. I'm going to crunch some numbers as far as actual COL comparison, but I'd also like to hear from you guys.
So.... What do you see as the pros and cons of retiring to the above cities?
The cons of the places on your list but not on ours have to do with lack of culture / amenities / excess taxation / other issues. One theme we have is places with a 3 season climate (or weakly 4 season), that are not blazing hot, and have a reasonable degree of worldliness.
I wouldn't comment on that many options if I did have first hand knowledge of them all, so...
Indianapolis - my 2nd choice, coldish winters (lived in IN 24 years)
Jacksonville - lived in Lakeland for 3 years, I'd never go back to FL, but I know that may be a minority view
the Miami suburbs - my BIL lives there, moved from RI, hates Miami area
New Orleans - great place to visit
just about any decent sized city in Texas - if it wasn't for the extreme heat, Austin would be my 1st choice, wonderful city. Dallas is very nice too (lived there 3 years). San Antonio (lived there 4 years) just too hot and inferior to Austin. Houston is nice, but add humidity to Texas heat and WOWZA! Water shortages in the future?
Minneapolis - wonderful place 9 months of the year, can be unbearable in winter. (Sister lived there for many years).
Charlotte - we want to research this one further, looks appealing but I wonder what happens if BoA gets in more trouble.
Raleigh - along with Chapel Hill, Durham, our 1st choice - but the land of suburbs, few walkable areas
Buffalo - have you been there? It will take generations to recover, and winter is brutal, can you say lake effect snow?
Cleveland - they keep trying, and failing to improve the city, Columbus is a much better choice in OH (lived there 10 years)
Phoenix - if you think TX is hot, try AZ! (know two couples who live in AZ, one Phoenix, one Tuscon). You'll see highs over 110F some days, but it's a dry heat And water shortages in the decades ahead?
What we like isn't of much value to anyone else anyway...
I'll just note that Lakeland is about 200 miles SW of JAX. Florida is a very big state . OTOH - no one who doesn't like/can't stand hot/humid in the summer should consider any part of Florida (or the SE for that matter IMO). Robyn
Last edited by Robyn55; 06-08-2012 at 04:56 PM..
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And water shortages in the decades ahead?
), the list goes on. True, can be gray. I'd move in a hearbeat if I could get season tickets to the Steelers!
