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OK - so how old are you? People who graduated from high school in 1961 are a bit older than those who started in 1969.
FWIW - I'm just trying to figure out if you're a "senior" by any measure. I'm 65 - my husband is 67 (we're junior seniors by Florida standards - I think the minimum age for a senior is 65 - perhaps older now that the full SS age age is 65+) - and we had lunch with my 94 year old father today. Robyn
No kidding.
Since you didn't receive a response to this question, I think you've probably figured out that the poster is in his fifties. As he went to high school in the 70's, I figure he's about my "baby" sister's age.
As my friend who once cared for her elderly mother said to me, "What happens if you CAN'T walk?" Point taken. I like having everything I need within walking distance. But in terms of aging in place, a support system (family, friends and/or community sponsored mobility services) is invaluable and trumps having everything I need within walking distance.
Now that I think about it, I walked a heckuva lot more while staying at my DIL's guest cottage than I do in my walkable neighborhood. Go figure.
Since you didn't receive a response to this question, I think you've probably figured out that the poster is in his fifties. As he went to high school in the 70's, I figure he's about my "baby" sister's age.
As my friend who once cared for her elderly mother said to me, "What happens if you CAN'T walk?" Point taken. I like having everything I need within walking distance. But in terms of aging in place, a support system (family, friends and/or community sponsored mobility services) is invaluable and trumps having everything I need within walking distance.
Now that I think about it, I walked a heckuva lot more while staying at my DIL's guest cottage than I do in my walkable neighborhood. Go figure.
I think you mean "What if you CAN'T walk" as in no place is close to where you live - as opposed to you need a wheelchair or other mobility device to get around. Am I right?
I agree with you 100% that in terms of aging in place - the issues are more complex than having a grocery store 1/2 mile away. Our house is conveniently located for us because it's very close in terms of driving times/distances along easy to drive roads to get to every place we absolutely positively have to get to.
If there comes a time when we can't drive - not even a golf cart - cab rides would be cheap (assuming we are still able to live in our current house). We have a public transportation system - but it isn't terrific. And it's not the kind of thing an older person (or even a younger person) would want to deal with. The connections are bad - and it takes forever to get from A to B. Moreover - waiting for connections when it's 90 degrees outside isn't much fun. About the only good public transportation here is the buses that run from park and ride lots to things like football games.
Even places with good transportation systems can have issues if you're older and/or incapacitated. My husband had a spill on a tram in Stockholm when it left the station with a big lurch before he could get to a seat. "Walkable" places can have issues too. As pretty as parts of Stockholm were - cobblestone streets can be very "user-unfriendly".
FWIW - we're going to Tokyo later this year. We've been there before. The subway system is excellent - but we don't use it at rush hour because of this:
FWIW - I like to walk. But for fun - not to get errands done. It's not particularly convenient or efficient.
Finally - I still think a lot of people seem to confuse being old with being middle-aged. Someone who is 50-something is not old. Even though I am technically a senior at age 65 - I don't think of myself as old - because I'm still pretty "able-bodied". And when people are talking about a "walkable town for retirement" - I think most people would assume they're talking about a normal retirement age in their 60's - looking down the road to when they're in their 70's or perhaps early 80's. Robyn
As others have said upthread, a whole city or town does not have to be "walkable" if your own neighborhood is. Certainly we do not think of Southern California when we think "walkable", yet I live in a very walkable location. This occurred by luck, because when I bought my townhouse 11 years ago I was not even thinking about walkability; I bought it because I liked the interior, the price was right, and it was within easy car commuting distance to work. (I was still full-time then). I live in a safe, smaller city. There are many of these in Southern California - cities that are not part of the City of Los Angeles and which have their own school systems, fire and police departments, etc. I live within one mile of the following:
large supermaket
multi-plex cinema (alas, not an art house)
automobile club office
large, well-equipped gym
several banks
several barber shops
many, many restaurants of various types
bus line to downtown Los Angeles (only used it once, as a lark to see how it was)
a pretty good public library
several dentists
several auto dealers
two large pharmacies (which I don't use)
post office
What is NOT close by are the following:
large discounters (nearest is K-Mart at four miles)
my doctor's office (at 6 miles but I only go about twice a year)
auto parts stores (3 to 4 miles)
hardware/home building supplies (2 miles)
major cultural venues (downtown L.A. is 10 miles)
art house movie theatre (4 miles)
What is walkable is personal, of course. Just for exercise and pleasure, I have occasionally walked the four miles (mostly low-traffic, tree-lined streets) to the art house, watched a movie, and walked the four miles home. That counted as more than adequate exercise for the day.
My point is that it may be possible to find that fortunate location in most communities where many, many things are within easy walking distance. But I don't think any location is going to be near everything. Ah, if I could only move Disney Concert Hall (home of the L.A. Philharmonic and the L.A. Master Chorale) into my neighborhood!
No, it is not a contradiction in terms to be glad the auto dealer is close. I have dropped my car off for service, walked home, then walked back later in the day to pick it up. That walk is quicker than waiting for their pick-up service.
Where you live sounds pretty similar to where we live. Although the Mayo Clinic (where we get most of our medical care) is closer and our auto dealer is farther away (OTOH - we need "service" more than our car does ).
Which brings up an important point. Convenience to the things you tend to do most of the time. I realize that your statement about the Disney Concert Hall was wishful thinking on your part. But - in all honesty - there is probably much more of the stuff you use on a regular basis that is close to you than you'd have if you lived in one of the new apartments close to the Hall. We were in that area during our last trip to Los Angeles in 2011 to have lunch and go to MOCA (which is close to the Hall). And there just wasn't a lot there in the immediate area (note that we had lunch at Drago Centro - and I recommend it highly). Just like the stuff we tend to use on a regular basis is much closer to us than a place like the Florida Times Union Center (it's our local equivalent of the Disney Concert Hall and it's in downtown JAX). Robyn
I can't believe that I'm actually being suckered into this. I feel like I'm arguing with a 12 year old. Anyway if you're from Long Island, then you should know that every town is not like a Levittown. Try looking up Babylon, Huntington, Sayville, etc... to get a feel for where some of us live. Plenty of people live car-free in Long Island. I myself own a car, but since I retired my wife & I only drive about 8-10 thousand miles per year combined. Obviously heavy-duty grocery shopping is hard to manage without a car, but if worse comes to worse there are a couple of grocery stores within 1 mile, and it's no big deal to buy a couple of items and carry them home. Also, my dentist and doctor are within 1 mile. The important thing is that I can accomplish many of my everyday errands on foot, if I CHOOSE to do so. After Sandy when there was a gas shortage, I went about 10-14 days without driving. And yes, I did walk the dog today.
I consider having access to public transportation as being "walkable." I can leave my car in my garage, walk to the local LIRR station, transfer to the Airtrain at Jamaica Station, and easily get to JFK Airport. We travel light (if it doesn't fit in our carry-ons it doesn't go), but if you check a lot of big bags then this may not be a good option.
I enjoy walking into my town every day, even if I don't have any errands to do. It's a quaint little main street area. By the way, I can't believe that you would visit the fine city of Stockholm. It seems like it would be the antithesis of what you're all about (being walkable with good public transit).
I still can't figure out why you think that it's stupid for people to have options. Of course it's not that easy to be able to walk to everything. Being able to walk to only a few things > being able to walk to nothing. I would think that this is even more important as we age. But hey, if you want to live in some lame community where you HAVE to drive everywhere, then be my guest. I guess that having to prove some stupid political point (or being needy when the time comes) outweighs practical considerations.
You're free to respond or not respond to posts. I didn't "sucker you" into anything.
As for life-styles - you don't know anything about mine. My husband and I actually drive fewer miles a year than you do. And that's counting perhaps a couple of driving trips a year to places like Atlanta (about 800 miles RT) and Charleston (about 550 miles RT). I don't know if that's because we're more efficient in planning our driving trips (like combining a lunch with my father - who lives about 15 miles away from us with a trip to the only Whole Foods in our area - which is about 25 miles away from us) - or the places we drive to most of the time are closer. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with our worrying about spending money on gas.
And you don't know anything about me. I'm a practical person. Like Caladium - I love our local Costco (and am glad we have lots of storage space). I shop for bulky routine things like toilet paper - water - and bird seed at Costco. Things I don't like to buy in huge amounts I buy at close local supermarkets. And the only time "worse comes to worse" in terms of grocery items is when I forget to buy - say a lemon - I need for something I'm preparing (I always make shopping lists but sometimes I screw up). In which case - I needed it 5 minutes ago - not when someone is finished with a 2 mile walk.
Also - what do you mean by this:
The important thing is that I can accomplish many of my everyday errands on foot, if I CHOOSE to do so.
Does that mean you normally don't choose to do so? I can understand why someone might not choose to walk a couple of miles for a dentist appointment (you never know what unpleasant surprises you might find during a visit to the dentist) - or a routine grocery trip (your ice cream might melt in the summer and you might freeze in the winter) - but you can explain things in terms of your personal choices. Note that I don't care what you did after an extraordinary event like Sandy - much like you probably couldn't care less what I did after Hurricane Andrew. How people live their day-to-day lives is much more important IMO.
I wish our local airport was a bit closer - it's about a 45 minute drive - but it isn't. OTOH - the parking is very cheap (like $5/day). And sometimes we take a limo (if we think we'll be arriving home with a huge amount of jet lag). I can't imagine not checking bags (no matter how big or small they are). Why wouldn't you check bags? It's not like I'm traveling on business and have to rush around from here to there schlepping my stuff around with me all the time. Most of my travel is for pleasure (I assume most of yours is too).
Note that my husband and I have traveled a lot - to lots of places. We spent a week in Stockholm. We'll be spending about 4 days in Toronto this year (then go to a family wedding in Michigan) - also a week in Tokyo. Both repeat visits. Probably some shorter range trips too. I thought Stockholm was very pleasant (and we were blessed with great weather). But we had problems with public transportation and cobblestone streets (both can be troublesome for people with mobility issues). Note that cabs - we used them a lot - are super expensive in Stockholm. Much more expensive than cabs in other cities we've visited.
What do you mean when you say a town is "quaint". When I hear that - I always envision a place with lots of stores that sell tchotchkes - and not anything except a tourist who's had a couple of drinks would consider buying. YMMV.
I honestly think you have to reconsider what you say about options. As we age - our options are often driven as much by our physical limitations as our geography. I have an elderly aunt (she's now 92) who recently moved from her apartment in Queens NY to an independent senior living facility in Westchester. She had a grocery store a few blocks away in Queens - but hadn't been able to use it for years because she couldn't walk 5 blocks with groceries - even after 2 knee replacements - and even in good weather. Her neighbors shopped for her. Many people - as they age - have more in the way of mobility impairments than they have in the way of driving impairments. My father - at age 94 - has been living in an independent senior living facility here for about 7 years now. Until recently - his driving was much better than his walking (now it's about a tie <sigh> - but - at age 94 - that it is to be expected). He could live in the most "walkable" place in the world - and it wouldn't help him one bit (wouldn't have helped him 10 years ago either). My husband - at age 67 with MS - walks with a big leg brace and a cane. His driving is *much* better than his walking. And probably will be for at least a decade or two. FWIW - with my late in-laws - my MIL died at 79 and my FIL died at 84 - their driving was better than their walking in their later years. With my late mother - who also died at 84 - well she had different issues. What you contemplate is someone's ability to drive will always deteriorate/disappear before one's ability to walk. But my personal experience has been to the contrary. It certainly isn't a given. What if you live in a walkable place where you can't drive - and your walking is impaired?
BTW - where I live isn't lame. I live in beautiful Ponte Vedra Beach FL. You can see us on TV during the Players Championship . Where do you live? Robyn
You're free to respond or not respond to posts. I didn't "sucker you" into anything.
As for life-styles - you don't know anything about mine. My husband and I actually drive fewer miles a year than you do. And that's counting perhaps a couple of driving trips a year to places like Atlanta (about 800 miles RT) and Charleston (about 550 miles RT). I don't know if that's because we're more efficient in planning our driving trips (like combining a lunch with my father - who lives about 15 miles away from us with a trip to the only Whole Foods in our area - which is about 25 miles away from us) - or the places we drive to most of the time are closer. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with our worrying about spending money on gas.
And you don't know anything about me. I'm a practical person. Like Caladium - I love our local Costco (and am glad we have lots of storage space). I shop for bulky routine things like toilet paper - water - and bird seed at Costco. Things I don't like to buy in huge amounts I buy at close local supermarkets. And the only time "worse comes to worse" in terms of grocery items is when I forget to buy - say a lemon - I need for something I'm preparing (I always make shopping lists but sometimes I screw up). In which case - I needed it 5 minutes ago - not when someone is finished with a 2 mile walk.
Also - what do you mean by this:
The important thing is that I can accomplish many of my everyday errands on foot, if I CHOOSE to do so.
Does that mean you normally don't choose to do so? I can understand why someone might not choose to walk a couple of miles for a dentist appointment (you never know what unpleasant surprises you might find during a visit to the dentist) - or a routine grocery trip (your ice cream might melt in the summer and you might freeze in the winter) - but you can explain things in terms of your personal choices. Note that I don't care what you did after an extraordinary event like Sandy - much like you probably couldn't care less what I did after Hurricane Andrew. How people live their day-to-day lives is much more important IMO.
I wish our local airport was a bit closer - it's about a 45 minute drive - but it isn't. OTOH - the parking is very cheap (like $5/day). And sometimes we take a limo (if we think we'll be arriving home with a huge amount of jet lag). I can't imagine not checking bags (no matter how big or small they are). Why wouldn't you check bags? It's not like I'm traveling on business and have to rush around from here to there schlepping my stuff around with me all the time. Most of my travel is for pleasure (I assume most of yours is too).
Note that my husband and I have traveled a lot - to lots of places. We spent a week in Stockholm. We'll be spending about 4 days in Toronto this year (then go to a family wedding in Michigan) - also a week in Tokyo. Both repeat visits. Probably some shorter range trips too. I thought Stockholm was very pleasant (and we were blessed with great weather). But we had problems with public transportation and cobblestone streets (both can be troublesome for people with mobility issues). Note that cabs - we used them a lot - are super expensive in Stockholm. Much more expensive than cabs in other cities we've visited.
What do you mean when you say a town is "quaint". When I hear that - I always envision a place with lots of stores that sell tchotchkes - and not anything except a tourist who's had a couple of drinks would consider buying. YMMV.
I honestly think you have to reconsider what you say about options. As we age - our options are often driven as much by our physical limitations as our geography. I have an elderly aunt (she's now 92) who recently moved from her apartment in Queens NY to an independent senior living facility in Westchester. She had a grocery store a few blocks away in Queens - but hadn't been able to use it for years because she couldn't walk 5 blocks with groceries - even after 2 knee replacements - and even in good weather. Her neighbors shopped for her. Many people - as they age - have more in the way of mobility impairments than they have in the way of driving impairments. My father - at age 94 - has been living in an independent senior living facility here for about 7 years now. Until recently - his driving was much better than his walking (now it's about a tie <sigh> - but - at age 94 - that it is to be expected). He could live in the most "walkable" place in the world - and it wouldn't help him one bit (wouldn't have helped him 10 years ago either). My husband - at age 67 with MS - walks with a big leg brace and a cane. His driving is *much* better than his walking. And probably will be for at least a decade or two. FWIW - with my late in-laws - my MIL died at 79 and my FIL died at 84 - their driving was better than their walking in their later years. With my late mother - who also died at 84 - well she had different issues. What you contemplate is someone's ability to drive will always deteriorate/disappear before one's ability to walk. But my personal experience has been to the contrary. It certainly isn't a given. What if you live in a walkable place where you can't drive - and your walking is impaired?
BTW - where I live isn't lame. I live in beautiful Ponte Vedra Beach FL. You can see us on TV during the Players Championship . Where do you live? Robyn
Oh well, that's 3 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.
Which brings up an important point. Convenience to the things you tend to do most of the time. I realize that your statement about the Disney Concert Hall was wishful thinking on your part. But - in all honesty - there is probably much more of the stuff you use on a regular basis that is close to you than you'd have if you lived in one of the new apartments close to the Hall. We were in that area during our last trip to Los Angeles in 2011 to have lunch and go to MOCA (which is close to the Hall). And there just wasn't a lot there in the immediate area (note that we had lunch at Drago Centro - and I recommend it highly). Just like the stuff we tend to use on a regular basis is much closer to us than a place like the Florida Times Union Center (it's our local equivalent of the Disney Concert Hall and it's in downtown JAX). Robyn
I agree. I go to Disney Hall about once a month average over a year's time, so that's not the most important thing for me to be close to in terms of walking distance. Actually, I am close to it - almost exactly 10 miles. In Los Angeles terms, that is close, and I feel very fortunate.
Interesting in light of how many small cities and towns are building multi-million dollar libraries like crazy. Who's really going to use these? Teens and elderly??? Who's going to pay for them and their endless stock of books and materials? We are. Why don't we just buy everyone in town a Kindle? It would be cheaper and more effective at getting everyone to read.
(I know, many like to hold a real book in their hands, including me....but there are bookstores for people like us.)
That's like saying "Why build a concert hall, just give everyone an i-pod" or "Why build an art museum, since you can look at art online." Libraries are a lot more than a place to keep books on shelves.
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).
. Where do you live? Robyn
