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NJ teachers have had pension/medical benefits that are among the best. Eventually there will need to be changes as the state will not have the money to pay them. All people who have pensions (public or private) should pay attention to their yearly statements and state aware of how adeqaute the funding is.
Bada Bing as is true with Social Security. Both are individually contributed to with an employee contribution and a pay out based on work history. As with Escort and many others their individual and employer contributions were partially in lieu of SS. Great Point!
I agree those are probably the most significant reasons. Still, Calif. teachers are not the recipients of nearly the largesse of some other pension systems. For example, there is no health insurance benefit for retired teachers through the state system. (Individual school districts can offer it as a form of icing on the cake, but many do not, and the ones which do wish they hadn't).
Yes, I get what you're saying...but at the very least, the state should NOT have reduced their contributions. And the other part of the problem with the whole largesse thing is that the other more generous pensions are not sustainable, either.
The same kind of mindset applies where I live. The police & firefighters got better pay increases and had better pensions than the rest of us. Then our union would say "See, we're not greedy because the police & firefighters get more". That kind of thinking took all of us off the financial cliff, resulting in a ~12.5% pay cut across the board back in 2011. We've only gotten a 2% raise, since but that raise (and then some) has been gobbled up by increased pension contributions over the past several years. The police are now paying huge portions of their salaries toward the pensions (and they're screaming about it)...and the City is paying even more (last I heard the pension costs to the City were over 100% of their salaries..and I believe it).
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 02-22-2014 at 02:22 PM..
Yes, I get what you're saying...but at the very least, the state should NOT have reduced their contributions. And the other part of the problem with the whole largesse thing is that the other more generous pensions are not sustainable, either.
The same kind of mindset applies where I live. The police & firefighters got better pay increases and had better pensions than the rest of us. Then our union would say "See, we're not greedy because the police & firefighters get more". That kind of thinking took all of us off the financial cliff, resulting in a ~12.5% pay cut across the board back in 2011. We've only gotten a 2% raise, since but that raise (and then some) has been gobbled up by increased contributions over the past several years. The police are now paying huge portions of their salaries toward the pensions (and they're screming about it)...and the City is paying even more (last I heard the pension costs to the City were over 100% of their salaries..and I believe it).
In many cases state pensions were not negotiated but provided and enhanced by a legislative process over the years. Now that process is reversing itself. Police and fireman at the local level negotiated their contracts themselves and were very effective at it. They are able to pack more punch at the negotiating table because a higher percentage of the local citizens value safety services higher than most others.
Pensions, or better known as Traditional Pensions, do not exist or rarely exist in the "Business World. Very few companies still maintain a benefit that used to be a tool that companies would use if a very good long term worker was considering making a move to another firm. classic lines was "and your going to give up your pension" all different these days. Seems like its limited to Teachers, fireman and police. My father was a detective for 40 years and they had a great benefit package that mt 92 year old mother still utilizes the health and dental plans. good for her. but this all comes at a tremendous cost to State budgets. Here in the lovely Garden State of NJ our recently reelected Governor Chris Christie changed the whole benefit, pension, retirement benefits for the teachers and teachers union and you would have thought they all had to give up their first born. States just cannot afford these "Perks" to continue anymore. The number of times i read about Teachers, police, fireman who walk off into the sun with great pensions and in some cases over 400,000 dollars in unused sick time i just shake my head. In the "Real World" if you have sick time u didn't use, kaput, its gone. You can't carry it over year after year after year. companies would go bankrupt because their are crazy people like me who never took a sick day in 39years of working. took my allowed vacation but was lucky and never sick enough to call out sick. Trust me, I am not expecting a big check on my last day. People hated the NJ Governor beacuse he was treating the State finances like a business. Its a different world out there buckeroos......
In many cases state pensions were not negotiated but provided and enhanced by a legislative process over the years. Now that process is reversing itself. Police and fireman at the local level negotiated their contracts themselves and were very effective at it. They are able to pack more punch at the negotiating table because a higher percentage of the local citizens value safety services higher than most others.
But what I'm saying is that those tactics ultimately backfired for them, too. The cops and firefighters are paying huge percentages of their incomes toward the pensions now and they're screaming about it. So, whether it be at the state level or the local one, the end result has been the same.
But what I'm saying is that those tactics ultimately backfired for them, too. The cops and firefighters are paying huge percentages of their incomes toward the pensions now and they're screaming about it. So, whether it be at the state level or the local one, the end result has been the same.
Sure and agreed and I wonder who will get cut first and the most .
Pensions, or better known as Traditional Pensions, do not exist or rarely exist in the "Business World. Very few companies still maintain a benefit that used to be a tool that companies would use if a very good long term worker was considering making a move to another firm. classic lines was "and your going to give up your pension" all different these days. Seems like its limited to Teachers, fireman and police. My father was a detective for 40 years and they had a great benefit package that mt 92 year old mother still utilizes the health and dental plans. good for her. but this all comes at a tremendous cost to State budgets. Here in the lovely Garden State of NJ our recently reelected Governor Chris Christie changed the whole benefit, pension, retirement benefits for the teachers and teachers union and you would have thought they all had to give up their first born. States just cannot afford these "Perks" to continue anymore. The number of times i read about Teachers, police, fireman who walk off into the sun with great pensions and in some cases over 400,000 dollars in unused sick time i just shake my head. In the "Real World" if you have sick time u didn't use, kaput, its gone. You can't carry it over year after year after year. companies would go bankrupt because their are crazy people like me who never took a sick day in 39years of working. took my allowed vacation but was lucky and never sick enough to call out sick. Trust me, I am not expecting a big check on my last day. People hated the NJ Governor beacuse he was treating the State finances like a business. Its a different world out there buckeroos......
Your basic point is a good one - we do live in a different world now, financially speaking. Just a quibble, however, about the sentence I bolded: In California at least, pensions are not at all limited to teachers, firemen, and police. On the contrary, MOST municipal, county and state workers get pensions. In fact the Calif. pension system for non-teachers (CalPERS) is the largest public pension system in the country.
I can well imagine the huge outcry of protest from public sector workers in New Jersey, and I can well imagine how a lot of taxpayers were disgusted by that very outcry. However, it is human nature to get upset when something we already have is taken away - or in many cases it could have been something they were promised and the promise was taken away.
I see it as necessary adjustments which are bound to be both painful and controversial.
biscman- what you stated above is the problem. Your information is incorrect- and no I am not a teacher. Teachers do not walk away with $400,000 sick leave. That is supers and other administrators. Number 2 the cost to local governments to a teachers pension is zero. The State was supposed to pick up the cost of 4% of a teachers salary. The State did not make the payment.
The sole problem with NJ pensions was the State not making the contribution for over 20 years.
Eskort- my problem is people base their animosity to the pensions on misinformation. They see articles of pension outrages and think that applies to the regular guy. What they do not know is that situation was not fixed but the changes were made to the guy playing by the rules.
Christie blamed teachers for NJ's pension problems in the same way Hitler blamed Jewish citizens for Germany's problems.
One other distinction between public sector pensions and private sector pensions- in general private sector pensions are funded by the employer where a NJ teachers pension is funded mostly from the employee with a percentage from the employer.
But what I'm saying is that those tactics ultimately backfired for them, too. The cops and firefighters are paying huge percentages of their incomes toward the pensions now and they're screaming about it. So, whether it be at the state level or the local one, the end result has been the same.
Well, yes and no. Everything is relative. It used to be that our police, and firemen did not make decent salaries and these perks were in lieu of better salaries. A lot has changed up here in the Garden State. A lot of the police make over 90k to 150k based on their position and tenure. Not much different than some of their peers in the business world. not everyone in the business world makes 200k like some would like to believe. They are fortunate that they have a pension system to contribute to, average business person has only a 401k or a roth. More adverse risk or poor investing than a structured pension plan. I don't begrudge the police and fireman at all as in my mind they are all heroes putting their life on the line every day they leave for work. But on the other hand a lot of the "young" retired who are moving south are former police and firemen in their mid 50;s with pensions paying 60-80k a year.
A business person who does not have a pension would have to have a $2.5mill nest egg and probably work till 62 to compare to such a rich pension payment.
Cities and states just casn't afford these pensions as well as retiree health, dental benefits anymore.
If you are a former business person I am sure you are aware of the first thing to get cut when companies are having financial issues. Yup, you got it. Bennys for the retirees. Very few companies continue to offer health and dental for their retirees these days. More will kill it as the country has yet to pull out of the financial mess we are in.
Theres no easy answer. In NJ former Governor Whitman raided the state pension fund and thats why the Gaerden State is in a mess. Don't envy governor christie at all
Cops and fire can retire earlier than teachers and have a more lucrative pension. Their fund is in much better shape than the teachers because local governments made the required contribution.
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