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<snip> It's just that we have to understand and respect others' wishes. Safety while alive is important, so he should probably not live alone if possible.
Aha! This is one reason I started the thread. The Catch-22. The harsh reality is once you begin implementing "safety" precautions, you have effectively thwarted his plan. IOW, you are no longer respecting his decision.
I am so very sorry you and your father are having to go through this. It is not going to be easy on anyone. When I was a child my grandmother had Alzheimer's. When my grandmother was in reality she used to beg her son-in-law to kill her. He went so far as to buy books on how to do it without leaving evidence! In the end she contracted pneumonia and her compassionate physician opted not to treat her.
So, fast forward to my Father-in-law. He was very depressed and he wanted to die. He suffered from Anorexia. My late husband and I did everything that we could to help him. We sent him to a million doctors. We begged his physician to help us get him declared incompetent so that we could force help upon him. But his physician told us that our FIL had lived a good and long life and that we should honor his wishes. In the end we came to the same decision that you are making. We had to let him do what he needed to do.
In both cases it was very difficult. We had to do our grieving. But we made sure to spend as much time as we could with both relatives and we made sure they knew we loved them. We made as many memories as we could. In the end, however, you do have to grieve the loss, and in many cases we begin the grieving process before the death.
Sending you wishes for peace.
Wow! Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I stepped up to the plate many years ago when my senile (maternal) grandmother was hospitalized for pneumonia. In that situation, the physician was not as compassionate as the docs you described but in the end, her I.V. was discontinued and she peacefully died in her sleep. (Not surprising since she was COMATOSE when I visited her earlier in the evening). But the current situation with my father is no doubt much more difficult and more similar to that of your FIL's. It is comforting to know that others have taken the same course of action that I intend to take with my father. (Of course, we all know about good intentions. Stay tuned. )
Aha! This is one reason I started the thread. The Catch-22. The harsh reality is once you begin implementing "safety" precautions, you have effectively thwarted his plan. IOW, you are no longer respecting his decision.
I am so very sorry you and your father are having to go through this. It is not going to be easy on anyone. When I was a child my grandmother had Alzheimer's. When my grandmother was in reality she used to beg her son-in-law to kill her. He went so far as to buy books on how to do it without leaving evidence! In the end she contracted pneumonia and her compassionate physician opted not to treat her.
So, fast forward to my Father-in-law. He was very depressed and he wanted to die. He suffered from Anorexia. My late husband and I did everything that we could to help him. We sent him to a million doctors. We begged his physician to help us get him declared incompetent so that we could force help upon him. But his physician told us that our FIL had lived a good and long life and that we should honor his wishes. In the end we came to the same decision that you are making. We had to let him do what he needed to do.
In both cases it was very difficult. We had to do our grieving. But we made sure to spend as much time as we could with both relatives and we made sure they knew we loved them. We made as many memories as we could. In the end, however, you do have to grieve the loss, and in many cases we begin the grieving process before the death.
Sending you wishes for peace.
This kind person said it much better than I can. Great advice and well written.
The one thing that I would add is to do whatever you can to be sure that your father's will, estate planning, etc. are completed and signed. Most especially that he has signed a living will AND a power of attorney. Even if he has zero assets, he needs those two documents, especially given the current situation. More importantly, you and your siblings need those documents to be properly, legally enforceable and thoroughly considered by your father while he still can. Those documents and his will allow you to be guided to follow HIS wishes, without guilt or hesitation or second thoughts.
The vast majority of posters seem to favor suicide.
I always said people who post on internet forums do not represent the majority of people in the real world. I many times call the internet......." the fantasy world"
I say that because despite the vast majority of posters favoring suicide, the actual number who do so is very low.........( in the REAL world )
Death is a personal experience and should be left to those that go that path. I generally do not suggest death by a gun due to so many variables. For example, look at those that survive wars, etc. with what would be deadly wounds. I do question the thinking of those that seem to think we should torture those that are dying with unnecessary procedures, tests, etc. Its is a national tragedy in our country that we allow so many to feast on the dying for financial gain. Try to visit some nursing homes and visit those that are actually dying of this condition. If you desire you can provide information for your dad but I would only leave it at that. It seems he, as most do, has already waited too long for him to determine his fate.
Aha! This is one reason I started the thread. The Catch-22. The harsh reality is once you begin implementing "safety" precautions, you have effectively thwarted his plan. IOW, you are no longer respecting his decision.
You indicated he insists on living alone, as my mother did. We could not get health power of atty over her because she could demonstrate (unbelievably, despite her dementia) that she could take care of herself and she too insisted on living alone. If you let him live alone, he needs as many safety measures as possible including taking the stove out of his home. He may not be aware of these as you implement them, or he may throw a fit. If you want him in a facility against his wishes, that has to be a legal procedure as you know more than I do. So...are you asking whether you should assist him in suicide? Or just tell him you are OK with it? Someone intent on exiting will do so if living on their own.
The vast majority of posters seem to favor suicide.
I always said people who post on internet forums do not represent the majority of people in the real world. I many times call the internet......." the fantasy world"
I say that because despite the vast majority of posters favoring suicide, the actual number who do so is very low.........( in the REAL world )
I'd beg to differ with you. Suicide is drastically under-reported, for a variety of reasons. And the statistical occurance varies dramatically depending on age, religious beliefs, financial status, race, ethnicity geographical location, etc.
Based on the reported cases, suicide is the tenth leading cause of death in the US in 2007. Statistics indicate the rate has been increasing since 2010.
For each case of a 'successful' suicide, there is at least one more 'unsuccessful' attempt.
You indicated he insists on living alone, as my mother did. We could not get health power of atty over her because she could demonstrate (unbelievably, despite her dementia) that she could take care of herself and she too insisted on living alone. If you let him live alone, he needs as many safety measures as possible including taking the stove out of his home. He may not be aware of these as you implement them, or he may throw a fit. If you want him in a facility against his wishes, that has to be a legal procedure as you know more than I do. So...are you asking whether you should assist him in suicide? Or just tell him you are OK with it? Someone intent on exiting will do so if living on their own.
I was referring to this statement: "Safety while alive is important, so he should probably not live alone if possible."
I hope you understand that I am not criticizing you, in fact, I'm glad you wrote this. As I stated, there are many of us on this forum who have indicated that if we found ourselves in a similar situation as my father, we'd kill ourselves. And yet, as adult children, we tend to jump to the conclusion that we need to protect our parents from themselves.
I absolutely have no intention of assisting my father nor do I intend to tell him I am o.k. with it. Actually, he'd probably be insulted and interpret my support as suggesting I believe he needs my permission.
I did read the statistics and believe they prove my point rather than yours.
The posters here seem to say suicide is common in the elderly when the statistics show the people over 65 have a suicide rate of 14.3 per 100,000 while the US population as a whole ( including kids, young adults ) has a rate of 11.3 per 100,000.
That means that there isn't much difference even when you compare them to age groups most likely not to commit suicide.
Yes..........in the " real world" there are a lot less people worried about assisting their parents in suicide as there is in the " fantasy world" of internet posting.
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