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Yes, that's good, but a retiree needs to maintain and hold onto a desire to do the things you list. That can be the trick.....keeping the will and desire to keep doing these activities....some retirees lose the will to be involved and face ennui, anomie, lethargy, etc. And lose motivation. Some, I'm sure, never encounter these feelings. But those who love getting a paycheck and have an identity tied up in work need to face not getting a paycheck for tasks well-done and tasks completed, plus no imposed structure.
What I've seen happen to retirees in my own family is: they view retirement as a second childhood and fail to see that they need to plan for it to be successful at it -- like any major phase in life. There's a bumper sticker that says something like "No Job - No Kids - No Responsibilities". I personally don't find that sort of retirement slogan amusing - it's evidence of a mistaken belief that the end of life can be an extended version of a nine year old's ideal summer vacation where mom & dad take care of things and all you have to worry about is play and having fun.
When I was in grad school in clinical psych, I read a book "Existential Psychotherapy" by Irvin Yalom, as well as "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. They had a huge impact on me and the way I think of our psychological problems. Their central idea was that struggle with the tensions that arise from the existential "givens" of the inevitability of death, freedom and its attendant responsibility, existential isolation, and meaninglessness. It's our job to find a way out of those traps by finding the ground of meaning in ourselves -- and failing to do so means losing the will to be involved, as you point out. It's a spiritual quest no one else can accomplish for us.
I saw the result of this in my paternal grandfather, who had no hobbies or spirituality, or involvement in anything greater than himself, and whose life after retirement consisted of sitting in front of the television set smoking cigarettes until he died. My mother, who gave up work when she became married to be a housewife as people did in the 50s, had to go back to work when my father died -- and she resented him for it. She also spent the rest of her days sitting in front of the tube and smoking cigarettes. She had had hobbies earlier in life, but chose to spend the last of it in bitterness and misery. We tried to get her interested in things, but it was as though she decided interests and the sheer joy of living were things she had put behind her.
They chose unhappiness and nihilism over joy and meaning. As for me, I have no intention of repeating their mistakes.
What I've seen happen to retirees in my own family is: they view retirement as a second childhood and fail to see that they need to plan for it to be successful at it -- like any major phase in life. There's a bumper sticker that says something like "No Job - No Kids - No Responsibilities". I personally don't find that sort of retirement slogan amusing - it's evidence of a mistaken belief that the end of life can be an extended version of a nine year old's ideal summer vacation where mom & dad take care of things and all you have to worry about is play and having fun.
When I was in grad school in clinical psych, I read a book "Existential Psychotherapy" by Irvin Yalom, as well as "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. They had a huge impact on me and the way I think of our psychological problems. Their central idea was that struggle with the tensions that arise from the existential "givens" of the inevitability of death, freedom and its attendant responsibility, existential isolation, and meaninglessness. It's our job to find a way out of those traps by finding the ground of meaning in ourselves -- and failing to do so means losing the will to be involved, as you point out. It's a spiritual quest no one else can accomplish for us.
I saw the result of this in my paternal grandfather, who had no hobbies or spirituality, or involvement in anything greater than himself, and whose life after retirement consisted of sitting in front of the television set smoking cigarettes until he died. My mother, who gave up work when she became married to be a housewife as people did in the 50s, had to go back to work when my father died -- and she resented him for it. She also spent the rest of her days sitting in front of the tube and smoking cigarettes. She had had hobbies earlier in life, but chose to spend the last of it in bitterness and misery. We tried to get her interested in things, but it was as though she decided interests and the sheer joy of living were things she had put behind her.
They chose unhappiness and nihilism over joy and meaning. As for me, I have no intention of repeating their mistakes.
................
Ah! A kindred spirit! (That is, Vasily, not his grandfather or his mother). Vasily, I couldn't rep you, so I'm doing it this way.
What I've seen happen to retirees in my own family is: they view retirement as a second childhood and fail to see that they need to plan for it to be successful at it -- like any major phase in life. There's a bumper sticker that says something like "No Job - No Kids - No Responsibilities". I personally don't find that sort of retirement slogan amusing - it's evidence of a mistaken belief that the end of life can be an extended version of a nine year old's ideal summer vacation where mom & dad take care of things and all you have to worry about is play and having fun.
When I was in grad school in clinical psych, I read a book "Existential Psychotherapy" by Irvin Yalom, as well as "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. They had a huge impact on me and the way I think of our psychological problems. Their central idea was that struggle with the tensions that arise from the existential "givens" of the inevitability of death, freedom and its attendant responsibility, existential isolation, and meaninglessness. It's our job to find a way out of those traps by finding the ground of meaning in ourselves -- and failing to do so means losing the will to be involved, as you point out. It's a spiritual quest no one else can accomplish for us.
I saw the result of this in my paternal grandfather, who had no hobbies or spirituality, or involvement in anything greater than himself, and whose life after retirement consisted of sitting in front of the television set smoking cigarettes until he died. My mother, who gave up work when she became married to be a housewife as people did in the 50s, had to go back to work when my father died -- and she resented him for it. She also spent the rest of her days sitting in front of the tube and smoking cigarettes. She had had hobbies earlier in life, but chose to spend the last of it in bitterness and misery. We tried to get her interested in things, but it was as though she decided interests and the sheer joy of living were things she had put behind her.
They chose unhappiness and nihilism over joy and meaning. As for me, I have no intention of repeating their mistakes.
Thanks!
I had a visual image of the "guilty remnant" when I read this - (from "the Leftovers")
I am indeed thankful to all of you who encouraged me. I have not been able to quote all the posts and say thanks foe each. At the same time, I am indeed grateful to you all.
Waiting for the R-day. But I have figured out that I am indeed good at investments, learning new management trends and technology, thinking and reading. So, keeping aside the money needed for very basic living, I am going to read a lot and learn a litlle bit more about investing. It certainly is going to take most of my day time.
Encouraged. And again, heartful thanks.
There you go! (Picture of beaming parent watching child learn to ride bike with training wheels)
Just spoke with a 70 year old relative that is afraid to retire. It's not the money. Already retired from one job that still provides excellent benefits and working another. Think also receives SS, so not about the money.
She says that she is afraid she won't have a reason to do anything and will just die in her bed! I can't understand that, but I guess it happens.
That's the beauty of retirement, not the curse!
I have no reason to do what I do (except for working on a dissertation, but that is another story)
I can lay about in bed or not (hubby has something to say about this)
I can go to church or not (the Pope still has some clout in this matter)
I can walk the dog or not (dog has some say in the matter)
I can choose not to eat, or have an ice cream sundae (dr has something to say in this matter)
You see, there are still forces shaping your actions, but within reason, life can be good. It is certainly what you make of it, even if you are given lemons (you can still make the lemonade).
What I've seen happen to retirees in my own family is: they view retirement as a second childhood and fail to see that they need to plan for it to be successful at it -- like any major phase in life. There's a bumper sticker that says something like "No Job - No Kids - No Responsibilities". I personally don't find that sort of retirement slogan amusing - it's evidence of a mistaken belief that the end of life can be an extended version of a nine year old's ideal summer vacation where mom & dad take care of things and all you have to worry about is play and having fun.
...edited...
Thanks!
I guess I'm an oddball, but that bumper sticker is pretty much my mantra. I understand that you have seen, in your life, several people whose lives became a wasteland without work. Not everybody is built that way. I've only been retired for 7 years, but I am still enjoying my endless summer vacation. I find plenty of things to occupy my time and some of them involve helping others, but mostly I'm just enjoying the part where I don't have to do ANYTHING if that's how I feel on any given day. For me, an admitted control freak and obsessive caretaker, it's so liberating to let go of the reins and let this horse run. It still feels odd to know that I don't have to be anywhere at a given time. I can make my appointments, accept invitations, go for a hike, spend all day in the yard, or just decide to stay wherever I am for another day or two with no consequences. I've never before had that sort of freedom, having worked to support myself since age 16. I've always been the responsible one who takes care of everything. Now I just let other people deal with their stuff. I've finally learned to say "not my monkeys..."
I'm pretty frugal now, when I retire, more so. I will pay off my mortgage in five years and then save for the nursing home I'm sure either me or my husband will require.
I think this model is silly. But if it works for you, that's great. I think you're not retired yet, or are you?
I semi-retired almost 20 years ago, and fully retired about 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12
I suppose, if you find volunteer positions which take up the vast majority of your time, then your model might apply.
Quite honestly, I don't know how I ever fit work into my schedule. I'm on the go almost all the time; for example, I skied over 1 million vertical feet this past winter (an epic ski season). This spring & summer I have plans including 3 weeks in Bordeaux, a 2 week tour of Scotland's boutique distilleries, a week in Aruba to decompress, completing off-frame rotisserie restoration of a 1968 Camero, submitting a final draft of an academic paper to an academic journal, a couple of board meetings... you get the idea. No time for Wheel of Fortune.
Working for a living is highly over-rated.
Last edited by SportyandMisty; 04-21-2017 at 12:40 PM..
my 63 year old friend has taken to going to Europe and Los Angeles every 6 or 7 weeks (or a similar pattern however it works out) alternating between Europe and Los Angeles.
And he only goes to Florence, Venice, Barcelona, Paris, London, and Madrid - over and over and over :^) with an infrequent Vienna and Berlin thrown in.
And he always stays in Europe for 19 or 21 days. (three weeks)
on one hand, he seems like he is running away from things. on the other hand....whatever. It seems excessive - I wonder if other people find it excessive? Doesn't matter what I think; what matters is if he is enjoying life, yes.
what is your interest in Scotland's boutique distilleries - curiosity and special interest, or you've involved in making liquor?
you're enjoying life, and that's great!
Last edited by matisse12; 04-21-2017 at 02:31 PM..
I guess I'm an oddball, but that bumper sticker is pretty much my mantra. I understand that you have seen, in your life, several people whose lives became a wasteland without work. Not everybody is built that way. I've only been retired for 7 years, but I am still enjoying my endless summer vacation. I find plenty of things to occupy my time and some of them involve helping others, but mostly I'm just enjoying the part where I don't have to do ANYTHING if that's how I feel on any given day. For me, an admitted control freak and obsessive caretaker, it's so liberating to let go of the reins and let this horse run. It still feels odd to know that I don't have to be anywhere at a given time. I can make my appointments, accept invitations, go for a hike, spend all day in the yard, or just decide to stay wherever I am for another day or two with no consequences. I've never before had that sort of freedom, having worked to support myself since age 16. I've always been the responsible one who takes care of everything. Now I just let other people deal with their stuff. I've finally learned to say "not my monkeys..."
The OP wrote:
Quote:
What scares me to death is that I will have no value to offer to the world.
Repeating what I wrote earlier, the four existential challenges that face all of us are: the inevitability of death, freedom and its attendant responsibility, existential isolation, and meaninglessness. What the OP realizes is that finding meaning is important to him, and he had previously found it in what he does.
It's really not about jobs at all, for the OP or the rest of us. It's about finding meaning, purpose, and joy (things it appears that my grandfather and mother couldn't find in their existence). In other words, it's about who we really are in our heart of hearts.
It sounds like freedom/autonomy or the lack of it is a big part of the narrative of your life. You have freedom now, but you're choosing to be engaged: you're not choosing to do nothing every day. You're making appointments, accepting invitations, doing what you want to do which presumably has some intrinsic meaning for it. You're engaged with the world and other people. I have a feeling that if you chose not to do ANYTHING every day for 7 years or engage with others, you would be in a pretty miserable place.
Take a piece of paper and write "How Do I Want Family and Friends to Remember Me". Then write down a list of everything you can think of that you'd like to live on in their memories -- things that someone who knew you well would say in your eulogy. Circle the ones that give you the most joy, or have the most meaning for yourself or those you're engaging with. If our lives are to have meaning we'll make sure those things are part of our lives in retirement. And I would make the claim that if we convince ourselves that we don't care about mortality, freedom, isolation, or lack of meaning in who we are, we're kidding ourselves.
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I find plenty of things to occupy my time and some of them involve helping others, but mostly I'm just enjoying the part where I don't have to do ANYTHING if that's how I feel on any given day. For me, an admitted control freak and obsessive caretaker, it's so liberating to let go of the reins and let this horse run. It still feels odd to know that I don't have to be anywhere at a given time. I can make my appointments, accept invitations, go for a hike, spend all day in the yard, or just decide to stay wherever I am for another day or two with no consequences. I've never before had that sort of freedom, having worked to support myself since age 16. I've always been the responsible one who takes care of everything. Now I just let other people deal with their stuff. I've finally learned to say "not my monkeys..."
