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2,900? I have to say I'm sort of shocked by that. Its a broad number so I'm not sure what it means though. Still. In Michigan the average property tax on a 105,000 house which could be anything from a small 900 sq ft bungalow or ranch in a small town or a trailer in the country the property taxes avg 1800. It can be twice that. For that you get 6 months of gray low clouds, snow and cold, no mountains, no ocean, very little sun in general, although you can drive to a great lake in the summer. Michigan car insurance is second highest in the country.
When you say thousands, how many thousands more? I'm curious, I have always wondered so...Say 2,000 in property tax, 8% sales tax vs. 7 in TN, so say you spend 50,000 thats 500 dollars. 3 dollars a gallon vs. say 2 so say 12,000 miles a year a dollar extra is...1440? (my math sucks, hope I just didn't embarrass myself). We are up to 4000 divided by 12 months is an extra 333.00 a month. Lets say 5000 though since sales tax is less in a lot of states thats 417. Most states tax retiree pensions etc. in some way or another, not sure how CA stacks up, but it doesn't tax social security.
I get it if someone can't afford it, 417 a month would be sort of big in my monthly budget and I know its probably more than 417 a month (double?) but I can see why its worth it to many.
In life everywhere you get what you pay for. In terms of weather, ocean, mountains, winerys, hospitals, speciality care more mountains, cool places within striking distance etc. California has it all which is why its so crowded and expensive. When I see those outside sort of living room patios on tv and all that sun I just get so jealous. Seems like paradise. (I feel sun starved a lot)
Of course the average property tax will depend on the value of the house and where it's located. The 2900 is average state wide which includes lots and lots of desert and undesirable areas. The number jumps way up if it's anywhere near the ocean. By near the ocean, I mean within about 50 miles.
Of course everything is a compromise. Right now, I live about 100 miles from the ocean in an 1100 ft house in a city not known for it's beauty or low crime or good weather. My property taxes are about 2300 per year.
You forgot to mention that a modest electric bill in CA of about 300 a month will only be about 150 or so in some other states for the same amount used. If you don't live along the coast here, it gets hot, really hot for a large portion of the year. That alone can add another 1000 per year or more to live in CA easily.
Don't get me wrong, if you can afford to live along the coast, don't have to drive the freeways on a regular basis, and don't mind being in a progressive utopia, CA can be a wonderful place to live. Otherwise, not so much.
Last edited by marino760; 07-15-2017 at 09:04 AM..
2,900? I have to say I'm sort of shocked by that. Its a broad number so I'm not sure what it means though. Still. In Michigan the average property tax on a 105,000 house which could be anything from a small 900 sq ft bungalow or ranch in a small town or a trailer in the country the property taxes avg 1800. It can be twice that. For that you get 6 months of gray low clouds, snow and cold, no mountains, no ocean, very little sun in general, although you can drive to a great lake in the summer. Michigan car insurance is second highest in the country.
When you say thousands, how many thousands more? I'm curious, I have always wondered so...Say 2,000 in property tax, 8% sales tax vs. 7 in TN, so say you spend 50,000 thats 500 dollars. 3 dollars a gallon vs. say 2 so say 12,000 miles a year a dollar extra is...1440? (my math sucks, hope I just didn't embarrass myself). We are up to 4000 divided by 12 months is an extra 333.00 a month. Lets say 5000 though since sales tax is less in a lot of states thats 417. Most states tax retiree pensions etc. in some way or another, not sure how CA stacks up, but it doesn't tax social security.
I get it if someone can't afford it, 417 a month would be sort of big in my monthly budget and I know its probably more than 417 a month (double?) but I can see why its worth it to many.
In life everywhere you get what you pay for. In terms of weather, ocean, mountains, winerys, hospitals, speciality care more mountains, cool places within striking distance etc. California has it all which is why its so crowded and expensive. When I see those outside sort of living room patios on tv and all that sun I just get so jealous. Seems like paradise. (I feel sun starved a lot)
Well if paradise is covered in bumper to bumper traffic for 3 to 4 hours per day, air that's so polluted that they have warnings not to play outside or exercise on many days in the summer, the yearly danger of wildfire, and you like having taxes and regulations on your taxes and regulations, why yes it is paradise. 54 years in paradise was more than enough for us, so we moved to east Tennessee.
How many thousand do we save? We personally save over $19k per year. I did the math. (all savings are in parentheses). That includes our property tax savings ($3k/yr), our mortgage payments for similar size home (approx. 2800 sq ft, 3/3 w/3 car), but on a golf course a block from the 30 mile long lake ($9k/yr, purchase price almost exactly $100k cheaper than CA home with no golf course, and no lake), vehicle taxes ($600/yr), insurance on multiple vehicles (probably $1k/yr), utilities ($3K/yr), gasoline ($600/yr), state income tax (at least $2k/yr). CA taxes pensions the same as wages. TN has no income tax except on interest and dividends and even that is being phased out now. Sales tax here is a total of 9.75% in our county, but it was 9.25% in our county in CA. Yes, groceries are taxed here, but at 5%. That comes to an increase of about $300/ year for grocery tax for us. So to sum it up...we save 25% of our income and we live a better lifestyle and have more friends and fun here. We have natural beauty, a little different than the natural beauty in CA, but far less crowded and we don't have to pay fees to enter, fees to park, fees to camp, and have to sign up for a campsite 6 months in advance like you do in CA.
Obviously your savings will differ widely based upon your income, lifestyle, etc. For us it was a no brainer and we are very happy with our decision to stop complaining about the situation and try something new. If we live here 15 years, as we plan to, we will save over $285,000.
Last edited by TheShadow; 07-15-2017 at 10:18 AM..
Well if paradise is covered in bumper to bumper traffic for 3 to 4 hours per day, air that's so polluted that they have warnings not to play outside or exercise on many days in the summer, the yearly danger of wildfire, and you like having taxes and regulations on your taxes and regulations, why yes it is paradise. 54 years in paradise was more than enough for us, so we moved to east Tennessee.
How many thousand do we save? We personally save over $19k per year. I did the math. (all savings are in parentheses). That includes our property tax savings ($3k/yr), our mortgage payments for similar size home, but on a golf course a block from the 30 mile long lake ($9k/yr, purchase price almost exactly $100k cheaper than CA home with no golf course, and no lake), vehicle taxes ($600/yr), insurance on multiple vehicles (probably $1k/yr), utilities ($3K/yr), gasoline ($600/yr), state income tax (at least $2k/yr). CA taxes pensions the same as wages. TN has no income tax except on interest and dividends and even that is being phased out now. Sales tax here is a total of 9.75% in our county, but it was 9.25% in our county in CA. Yes, groceries are taxed here, but at 5%. That comes to an increase of about $300/ year for grocery tax for us. So to sum it up...we save 25% of our income and we live a better lifestyle and have more friends and fun here. We have natural beauty, a little different than the natural beauty in CA, but far less crowded and we don't have to pay fees to enter, fees to park, fees to camp, and have to sign up for a campsite 6 months in advance like you do in CA.
Obviously your savings will differ widely based upon your income, lifestyle, etc. For us it was a no brainer and we are very happy with our decision to stop complaining about the situation and try something new. If we live here 15 years, as we plan to, we will save over $285,000.
Totally agree. These are things people living in other parts of the country usually don't see or realize. They think nearly everyone lives within 5 miles of the beach, the temps are about 70 year round and all the fees and taxes are really no big deal.
Personally, like you, I can't wait to move to middle America. Culture shock? I'm actually looking forward to a different culture more like the culture I grew up in similar to CA in the 1960s and 70s.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHNot4Me
Sometimes, the heart just knows what it wants. I'm glad Vermont called you home, CatwomanofV.
I feel the same way about Wyoming and plan to retire there in 2020 or 2021.
WY always appears on the short list of "Best States to Retire To" based on its tax-friendly treatment of retirement income, no state sales tax, and low property taxes. I believe this tax environment can largely be attributed to the solidly Republican politics in place from the local to the state governments. WY was recently ranked #5 out of 50 states in terms of fiscal health (https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings).
....
So it will be WY for me!
Best wishes, I too expected WY for retirement, but it did not pass my CoL / equity risk (Energy state / BOOM and BUST economy, especially housing) It failed for medical and airport commute. AND DS said... "You WILL be very cold and lonely in WY.." BUT if I were single...
I have taken the step to have a 'resident' application at WY Pioneer Home! (on the site of Thermopolis Hot Springs!) I plan to wear out my swimwear frequently using the waterslide every morning before BINGO!
It will be nice to be back HOME (WY) for my elder yrs!
Oh, and if we need to talk about culture shock. A friend of mine from work who's in her early 20s and also happens to be Hispanic, was born and raised in CA recently spent 2 weeks in Tennessee. When she came back, all she could talk about was how beautiful it was and how polite and courteous people were in general to her being a complete stranger. She was in shock people still addressed each other as "sir" and "miss" when talking to people you don't know. She's now talking about going back there and looking for employment because she liked it so much. She posted this on Facebook and her friends think she's gone completely insane.
Last edited by marino760; 07-15-2017 at 11:07 AM..
A couple people touched on this but I can't stress it enough -- the cultural aspect of an area. As in the person who said moving to the South was a real culture shock. Moving from the East coast to the West coast can be a total culture shock, and vice versa. Moving anywhere far from what you're "used to" can be traumatic.
It can also be wonderful.
I grew up in Oregon. Moved to DC, lived in the District, then across the river in Arlington. I loved it. Sometimes I still miss it. Imagine visiting a different museum every weekend and not seeing any of them twice.
Then I moved to California and grew to love it, too. But that was in the late Seventies and it's not the same California any more.
I retired in Southern CA and love it here. I can't find the same year round weather elsewhere, I never want to deal with snow or humidity.
I'm conservative so I mostly ignore the politics, it wouldn't make me move to a place I'd enjoy less. I've lived here for over sixty years, I know what it was like in the 50's, 60's, 70's, but I live in today's world everywhere I go.
I agree much of California is expensive, I'm willing to pay more to live here.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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StealthRabbit,
You're going to live and die in one of your safe houses or on the airplane.
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" BUT if I were single...
