Setting Boundaries with Set-In-His-Ways Elderly, Cantankerous Father (spouse, states, adults)
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Is it possible for your brother to tell your Dad that his wife wants to move because of his behavior?
The basic question is whether or not your Dad is capable of changing this behavior? If he is lonely and depressed then the family should discuss this with him to see of there is any way to address his situation. Keep in mind the possibility that Dad may meet a gal and get married. All the estate planning then goes out the window.
This is not unlike the recurring issue (one that has popped up many times on this forum) re taking away the car keys from a parent who no longer is a safe driver.
The most common objection is that doing so will hurt the parent's feelings, insult their dignity, make them angry, and cause a rift.
At some point, someone has to make a decision: either put up with the status quo or take action and risk alienating a parent whose faculties are failing. As you said, let the chips fall.
There really is no other alternative. It's unfortunate that you're not in a position to make that decision, instead it's up to your brother.
I'm not reading the OP to say that the elderly father is demented - that this is just his personality without Grandmother there to filter it. Sounds like a hard-headed man who is used to having his way.
Have we really gotten to a point where we are truly in favor of locking our elderly parents out?! I'm a bit surprised there are so many responses along those lines. I guess mine are lucky because I'd never change the locks on them unless they were coming in and turning on gas jets and lighting candles or doing some other dangerous things that could result in loss of life or home. Even if they were walking in at inopportune intimate times or being a nuisance I would not change the locks. I worry more about them being disoriented or stuck outside left to dehydrate or freeze to death. Of course I'm not saying do not set any personal boundaries but I was raised to view having house keys of family/ friends as a safety issue and if your parents helped your brother have a home- he shouldn't be complaining about not being able to have an undisturbed nooner.
I sense some anger towards the father for having aspergers. It can be frustrating to try to explain boundaries with someone with aspergers but just because someone has aspergers does not mean it's ok to treat them like subhumans. Sure not understanding personal/ social norms are more difficult for someone with aspergers but it does not mean they don't want to understand and it does not mean it's ok to leave a family member with aspergers locked out of the house just so you can get it on, or have a nap or whatever.
I'm sure I'm coming off nasty and I truly don't mean to. I have a soft spot for the elderly because my parents are up there in years and I have so much gratitude for them and for people with aspergers like my friend who I am also grateful for. It's just a hot button issue- 80 is old. It's not young-old or the new 60's- it's old. Your brother should realize that this is just the beginning of a long time of some level of caregiving. In a few years dad might not be around to be annoyed with or he'll be around but having him roaming between houses and letting himself in would be seen as a good memory from when dad was mobile and more cognizant. It's easier to approach these things with a bit of humor and compassion and not be regretful later imo.
I think if you change the locks that will cause more harm than good. Get a latch for the inside of the door. That at least sends a less serious message than changing the locks to someone like him. Changing the locks says stay out and don’t come until I say it’s ok. Hard for an older person to adapt to that kind of change, I would think.
I agree. My Aunt doesn't lock doors and gets mad when I do. While house-sitting for my brother, she was coming and going doing things. One morning, she tried the knob, then her key, all to no avail because I had the deadbolt employed. She tried everything EXCEPT knocking. That literally didn't occur to her. I heard the racket and opened the door.
ha - I'd have waited all day until she actually knocked properly.
I've noticed that financial and other grants/gifts place the parents in a feeling of being in control of the lives of their underlings. I've seen it also w/ grandchildren who get money or college tuition. Knowing that they have a huge inheritance to pass along also gives them a ton of control over their successors.
And oldtimers often lose their filters and don't care anymore about pleasing others, saying the wrong things, being considerate.
No answers here - just an observation that I've noticed in my own family.
I concur.
My FIL is similar to the OP s, except for the asbergers syndrome, but old age [89], memory loss and a touch of senility has taken over.
He finally got the message about calling when we saw him pull up, I got "ready" ( shall we say) and donned a condom and opened the door wearing only that!!
Then when we moved into the new house we didn't give him a key, he was upset, but got the message, I think.
He does at time pass out some money , but he certainly doesn't forget that, and manipulate s through that. He figured if he gives you $500 you should be at his beck and call 24/7 for the next 6 months. He also offers it, then grumbles when it's time to write the Check, which he plays the "this is for MY CHILD" ROUTINE. Even though we've been married for 17 years going on 18, and i clearly always pay the bills. He always say "well your father can contribute too [ he does pass out dollars once in a while and knows it goes to both of us].
I'm usually the one my FIL cam get in the phone, I'm usually the one who makes the daily nightly phone call to be sure "he's alright", my OH works 2 jobs, comes home some nights after a 12 or 13 hour day, eats and goes to bed to get up very early the next morning .so i congenially makd tge nightly call.
Speaking of the phone call we learned to call only at night when FIL is getting ready for bed. He USED to play this game of "I'll not answer to see if tgey come running to see if I am dead or not "....then expect us to stay "as long as you are here to visit a while ". He understands we have 3 jobs between us, but still thinks we have time to do nothing but entertain him. When MIL was alive, she was the buffer between FIL and my OH and I. It she's gone 3 years now. He's just sitting there waiting to die.
He is crabby starts fights, usually over things he does NOT REMEMBER ( he forgot he had a aren't put in his heart until his doctor told him, he wouldn't believe us, and forgot he had cateract surgery on his eyes until he found the card for it in his wallet.). He crabby cantankerous and an old cramudgin.
He wont go to senior centers or join anything for activities, he thinks WE should "entertain him". We DO visit once at least a month, he gets his nightly phone call, but still doesn't think that's enough. When he gsmets birex he calls us wanting to cime over or us to gi there.
OP your BROTHER, as noted by posters, needs to grow a pair and change the locks. He can simply say the lock broke and "forget " to make an extra key ( and keep any extra keys hidden out of sight). Your BROTHER need a to set these boundaries, not you. YOU can make suggestions, but if your BROTHER doesn't, you can't help.
Just be glad it's not you he's walking in on while doing the deed.
Have we really gotten to a point where we are truly in favor of locking our elderly parents out?! I'm a bit surprised there are so many responses along those lines. I guess mine are lucky because I'd never change the locks on them unless they were coming in and turning on gas jets and lighting candles or doing some other dangerous things that could result in loss of life or home. Even if they were walking in at inopportune intimate times or being a nuisance I would not change the locks. I worry more about them being disoriented or stuck outside left to dehydrate or freeze to death. Of course I'm not saying do not set any personal boundaries but I was raised to view having house keys of family/ friends as a safety issue and if your parents helped your brother have a home- he shouldn't be complaining about not being able to have an undisturbed nooner.
I sense some anger towards the father for having aspergers. It can be frustrating to try to explain boundaries with someone with aspergers but just because someone has aspergers does not mean it's ok to treat them like subhumans. Sure not understanding personal/ social norms are more difficult for someone with aspergers but it does not mean they don't want to understand and it does not mean it's ok to leave a family member with aspergers locked out of the house just so you can get it on, or have a nap or whatever.
I'm sure I'm coming off nasty and I truly don't mean to. I have a soft spot for the elderly because my parents are up there in years and I have so much gratitude for them and for people with aspergers like my friend who I am also grateful for. It's just a hot button issue- 80 is old. It's not young-old or the new 60's- it's old. Your brother should realize that this is just the beginning of a long time of some level of caregiving. In a few years dad might not be around to be annoyed with or he'll be around but having him roaming between houses and letting himself in would be seen as a good memory from when dad was mobile and more cognizant. It's easier to approach these things with a bit of humor and compassion and not be regretful later imo.
IMHO, the lock is a tool used in an attempt to teach someone that there are boundaries, not a complete rejection. Everyone is entitled to privacy in their own home. I like the idea of the driveway advance warning. It lets the person who is home decide whether the visit is convenient or not and to give them time to respond. Its a physical call screener. No unpleasant surprises. They could choose to act as if no one is home (door locked). They could answer the door, explain that now isn't a great time to chat, or answer the door and welcome him in. A bit of positive reinforcement might go a long way. If they explain WHEN might be a good time to visit the driveway alarm and the lock can back that up.
I also agree that trying to teach someone like this a "new" lesson at this point may be futile. The tendency to disregard others isn't only a function of old age...the roots were probably there all along. Having grown up with a parent who was also insensitive about others it makes sense. Sometimes being subtle doesn't get through. Warnings make the person feel self-righteous and indignant so they may continue to act out from spite. The point is, can anything really teach this lesson? Have my doubts, but worth a try. Whether the wife wants to move because of this behavior probably means nothing to old dad.
Have we really gotten to a point where we are truly in favor of locking our elderly parents out?! I'm a bit surprised there are so many responses along those lines.
I am not surprised, because I read comments like this on a daily basis on C-D.
I am disappointed, though, at how older parents are often viewed as people just to put up with....if even that.
The old man is very lonely. His wife—his constant companion—died just two years ago.
A heart to heart discussion between the son and his father, telling the father that he needs to call before coming over is due. But the brother and his wife need to make the old man feel welcome by inviting him to come over for dinner or to just watch television, to work a jigsaw puzzle, to play cards or just to hang out. They can also take him out to dinner occasionally.
The parents were generous by deeding 2.5 acres to the son during their lifetimes instead of making him wait for an inheritance, which, by the way is not something people should expect to receive.
The parents or the Dad could have sold the whole estate and moved somewhere else, too.
Everybody else is saying to change the locks, so I probably shouldn't say the same thing. But change the locks for crying out loud!!! That is just too weird. It's a little on the voyeuristic side of things too. But the bit about your dad being raised by farm animals was pretty funny.
P.S. After reading more of the posts. Maybe just putting a lock on the bedroom door would be enough. Then at least the brother, and wife can take a nap, or have an afternoon delight without interruption, or being stared at (creepy).
Last edited by mlulu23; 01-03-2018 at 08:52 PM..
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