Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good point Machino. Gas saving would be big. However, I'll bet those buses cost a lot.
I do remember reading something a while back about how the link trolleys haven't been profitable and so they raised the fare to $1.50 which is kind of a lot for a ride that might be only a mile or two-- so I think that has turned out to be a disincentive to riders. Believe they were even talking about discontinuing them.
(By the way LR, I think they're cute!- OK... maybe a tad kitschy...)
Having said that- the colleges and unis get free fares and pay a fixed amount for the privilege. That probably needs to go up - but of course they probably have contracts in place now. RIPTA also subsidizes low income, seniors, etc.
Since RIPTA's always crying about deficits- I assume all this $$$$ for a new system is supposed to come from the FEDS???
Why do they keep proposing to "redo" Kennedy Plaza?? I can personally remember about 3 total redos already.
A driver I spoke with about the ecolobus estimated that after heaters were installed and the bus was shipped, it was about $400,000 (CAD, not USD) per bus. I don't know how much a larger, diesel bus is, but that seems kind of pricey. I think the cost benefit would have to be measured in the lifespan of the bus... do they last long enough for the cost difference to be made up savings on fuel. Also, three of these ecolobuses carry about the same number of people as one big bus (which is why they're really good for short routes).
I feel like the universities should be paying a premium to have their students ride for free (are they?). There's no way people should be paying $1.50 to ride those... it's only $1.70 to ride the subway or bus in Boston with free transfers to other lines... and the network is much further reaching. It would be great if it was a little cheaper.
As far as the looks go, I'll even go so far as to say that their quirkiness is probably beneficial. People (especially tourists and early college students) probably want to go for a ride on the "trolley bus." My only beef is that I find it kind of tacky that they copy the SF trolley, but hey, there's no question that it beats a normal bus and attracts attention.
I think most of the money for updating the plaza and the new lines are looking for Federal money and some state money. Most transit organizations (all in the U.S., only in Japan and Europe will you find profitable ones) run at a deficit and have to be subsidized through other means (taxes, etc). There are always various federal grants out there for projects, it's just a matter of putting together a plan, applying and winning (easier said than done). Hopefully, they can get some of that money.
I don't know about Kennedy Plaza. A great site to follow which covers a lot of that is "Greater City Providence." They cover a lot of that including the Kennedy Plaza redesign. I think this iteration is to make it more pedestrian friendly? Who knows.
Wow, the ecolobus...that is exactly the same kind of bus we have here in Japan. I live in a tiny little town in Japan, and that is exactly the one I use when I go to the train station here downtown or out to the mall. Even the seat cushion patters (and pretty much every interior detail) is the same.
Interesting.
Interesting. Do a lot of cities over there have them? The one in Quebec was the only one I've seen in North America.
The bus in my little town looks more similar to the Montreal one however, than the one in this video.
Wondering if the one in my town is electric or not or hybrid, or maybe the Montreal one got their buses from Japan - and its a Japanese company? I might take photos of the one later in my town.
The bus in my little town looks more similar to the Montreal one however, than the one in this video.
Wondering if the one in my town is electric or not or hybrid, or maybe the Montreal one got their buses from Japan - and its a Japanese company? I might take photos of the one later in my town.
Nontheless, they do have electric buses in Japan.
Cool. Thanks for sharing that video. The buses are actually in Quebec City, not Montreal. I don't know if Montreal has them (I don't think so). I'm pretty sure they came from Japan and it's 100% electric.
I do remember reading something a while back about how the link trolleys haven't been profitable and so they raised the fare to $1.50 which is kind of a lot for a ride that might be only a mile or two-- so I think that has turned out to be a disincentive to riders. Believe they were even talking about discontinuing them.
They are $1.75 now and with headways around 20 minutes, they are pretty useless. I can walk downtown faster than a trolley will arrive and take me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree
Having said that- the colleges and unis get free fares and pay a fixed amount for the privilege. That probably needs to go up - but of course they probably have contracts in place now.
The schools are enrolled in the UPASS program which allows students, faculty, and staff to board the buses using their school ID. RIPTA records the trips and charges the school. As an incentive to promote the program and get more cars off the road, the rate per trip charged to the schools drops after a certain number of rides. It is a relatively high number of trips that triggers the rate cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree
RIPTA also subsidizes low income, seniors, etc.
RIPTA does NOT subsidize these riders. There are federal and state programs that provide transit services for poor, disabled, and elderly passengers. The passengers pay less, but the non-RIPTA programs pay the difference to RIPTA. RIPTA gets paid a full fare.
As far as the looks go, I'll even go so far as to say that their quirkiness is probably beneficial. People (especially tourists and early college students) probably want to go for a ride on the "trolley bus." My only beef is that I find it kind of tacky that they copy the SF trolley, but hey, there's no question that it beats a normal bus and attracts attention.
The "trolleys" in Providence are terrible. They are poorly heated/cooled, the suspension is poor and the ride is jarring on Providence's notoriously poor streets (to the point where people can be thrown from their seats, land hard and hurt themselves), they cannot run in the smallest amount of snow getting stuck and having to be replaced by vans (which are much more comfortable), and the LNG engines require a separate maintenance team.
RIPTA wanted to get rid of them, but the tourism council in Newport freaked. The points you make about people liking and feeling comfortable with the old timey look is exactly why Newport did not want to lose them in favor of a more bus-like vehicle.
RIPTA has ordered new hybrid "trolley" buses with the same old timey style but addressing many of the other issues with the current vehicles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I think most of the money for updating the plaza and the new lines are looking for Federal money and some state money.
The current GM of RIPTA says the plaza was not designed properly the last time out and he would not have approved the design. The plaza currently exceeds it's design capacity in the number of buses moving through it. Some areas where buses are supposed to berth are not designed properly to actually get a bus into the berth.
Having that many buses moving through and idling and belching diesel in the center of the city has stifled development. The current plan is to have less buses in the center of the plaza with bus berths spread throughout the Kennedy Plaza area. The plaza will them be developed for more mixed use functions.
The minor programming that has taken place in the plaza over the last two years has lead to a dramatic reduction in crime. The theory is that the more different people there are doing different things in an area, the more likely they are to feel part of a community and not act out. When an area has a single function (waiting for buses) the group feels isolated and unwatched, and anti-social activity takes root.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
A great site to follow which covers a lot of that is "Greater City Providence." They cover a lot of that including the Kennedy Plaza redesign.
Thanks for the plug. We're following the developments coming from the Metro Transit Study closely too.
Thanks for the plug. We're following the developments coming from the Metro Transit Study closely too.
You're welcome. Thanks for doing what you do. I lived on the East Side (George) for a few years but moved out of the city. I left for college (Portland, Maine) and then moved into Boston. I still have family and friends in Providence and get down there as much as possible. Your site keeps me up to date on what's going on in Providence. In fact, the metro transit study link was obtained from your site.
I post frequently on Archboston.com (an architecture/planning site for metro Boston) and often plug your site there as they have an "outside the metro" section which has a Providence thread. That's a good one to check out if you're interested.
I post frequently on Archboston.com (an architecture/planning site for metro Boston) and often plug your site there as they have an "outside the metro" section which has a Providence thread. That's a good one to check out if you're interested.
I was active on SSG but never made the transition over to ArchBoston.
Location: The State of Rhode Island, Presented by Dunkin' Donuts
115 posts, read 377,598 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I don't know about Kennedy Plaza. A great site to follow which covers a lot of that is "Greater City Providence." They cover a lot of that including the Kennedy Plaza redesign. I think this iteration is to make it more pedestrian friendly? Who knows.
Kennedy Plaza. Hmmmm. I don't know what needs to be done with it, but right now, it's neither fish nor fowl. Pedestrian-hostile, car-hostile, in the middle of everything but convenient to nothing.
I have a mailbox at the UPS Store on Dorrance St., so I go through KP a lot -- sometimes driving, sometimes walking (to catch a bus at KP). Either way, it's frustrating -- behind the wheel, you've got one-way streets, speed humps, potholes and congestion. Walking, you've got too much traffic.
It might be that you just have to bite the bullet and get the cars the h3ll out of there -- don't let them use Washington St., Exchange St., or Kennedy Plaza. That would be a PITA, but if you're driving, you'd know you can't go there, and it would be a lot easier for pedestrians. Right now, you're always in danger of getting wiped out, when you're on foot.
All these one-way streets are a nightmare, as any city planner will agree. Traffic in one direction goes faster, but everyone else gets screwed (including the businesses on that street).
What are the planners talking about doing, with the latest iteration of re-doing Kennedy Plaza?
"It might be that you just have to bite the bullet and get the cars the h3ll out of there -- don't let them use Washington St., Exchange St., or Kennedy Plaza. That would be a PITA, but if you're driving, you'd know you can't go there, and it would be a lot easier for pedestrians. Right now, you're always in danger of getting wiped out, when you're on foot."
I would be in favor of removing all vehicles in KP. Enlarging the green space and keeping the roads around it one way counterclockwise as the have been for years. The green space could be used for outdoor markets and maybe even a small half shell for outdoor concerts or just better usage of the skating center. Anything that will bring people into down city Providence during the warmer months of the year. I think Providence is lacking for this type of venue. Free concerts on non Waterfire nights are needed or just day time M-F events. Even if someone just wanted to go on stage and start playing music! They would need an area for an audience to congregate.
"All these one-way streets are a nightmare, as any city planner will agree. Traffic in one direction goes faster, but everyone else gets screwed (including the businesses on that street)."
It's not so much the one-way street that is a problem for Providence, but the narrowness of its streets. We don't have the broad expansive streets that other most mid sized cities have. We have to remember that the narrowest of all major down city streets, Westminister Street, was once the retail center of Rhode Island and it would have over 100 transit movements an hour during commute times!! This was including auto traffic.
btw, I would be in favor of having a streetcar ROW through KP.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
