There's Elk Grove and there's Elk Grove ... Happy to Answer Questions (San Francisco: rent, HOA fees)

[caligirlz]

Originally Posted by DontKnowIfImComingOrGoing

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The purpose of this forum is to convey information to help people. With that in mind let me make some corrections.

I'm also happy to answer questions. Except from Majin who seems to be a troll!

OP, how long have you lived in EG?
Just wondering what your "qualifications" are to make corrections.

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Stay West

My question is why is Elk Grove experiencing dramatic white flight? What long term ramifications do you expect from this?

Who says Elk Grove is experience white flight, dramatic or otherwise? The population has quadrupled since 1990, a lot of the new residents are nonwhite, so it's not so much that there is white flight going on, but a growing nonwhite presence that has rapidly changed the demographics of what was, until recently, a little farm town, now a city of 160,000.

[DontKnowIfImComingOrGoing]

Originally Posted by caligirlz

OP, how long have you lived in EG?
Just wondering what your "qualifications" are to make corrections.

Ten years.

Can someone elaborate on this claim of white flight? Certainly EG has become a bit more diverse in the last few years. Part of this was due to that great buying opportunity in 2008-2011. Many Asian cultures believe in multi-generations (kids, parents, grand-parents) under the one home philosophy. With the home price collapse 5000sq ft homes could be had for $500K and many people jumped on this.

[hd4me]

Originally Posted by Stay West

My question is why is Elk Grove experiencing dramatic white flight? What long term ramifications do you expect from this?

Originally Posted by NickB1967

A sharp Asian influx into Elk Grove does not make for a dramatic White flight out of it. Elk Grove's population has been sharply growing, not stagnating.

Maybe the experience in the Sunset District in SF is unique and it may be all coincidence but years ago the neighborhood was Irish and Italian. Now its nearly half Asian. The public schools in that part of the city are the better performing schools within SFUSD. White flight happened but school performance didn't lag it actually rose and housing values have been very stable since the Asian families tend to keep their homes. The neighborhood is considered as suburban as you can get in SF. It's quiet and violent crime is very rare.

So it just depends on one's experience about the effects of White flight and if the incoming population wants to make a better life for themselves and children.

[Stay West]

The U.S. census data says EG is experiencing white flight.

Here's racial mapping for the 2000 census:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walking...57624812674967

And this is the 2010 census:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/5559878519/

If the disparity in those maps for a meager 10 years isn't dramatic, I don't know what is.

And no, the Asian population moving in isn't the high tech rich San Francisco crowd as Hd4me laughably compares it to. It's largely ESL southeast Asian populations such as Hmong, etc.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Stay West

The U.S. census data says EG is experiencing white flight.

Here's racial mapping for the 2000 census:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walking...57624812674967

And this is the 2010 census:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/5559878519/

If the disparity in those maps for a meager 10 years isn't dramatic, I don't know what is.

And no, the Asian population moving in isn't the high tech rich San Francisco crowd as Hd4me laughably compares it to. It's largely ESL southeast Asian populations such as Hmong, etc.

From my own unscientific view of it, it is not Southeast Asian Hmongs, but rather mostly *South* Asian Sikhs and Hindus.

I see your "dot color" maps again, but *again*, those moving in are predominantly of the Asian persuasion (on the maps, "green dots"). This is usually *not* the detrimental warning sign that a large influx of "blue dots" sadly all too often means, and to a lesser extent what a large influx of "orange dots" sadly all too often means.

In fact, it usually means quite the opposite. The "green dots" are usually educated, entrepreneurial, and professional people, or at least *people striving to be so*. The Hmongs are not well educated, but they certainly are entrepreneurial.

In a city like Cupertino (see the San Jose area dot maps) the "green dots" gentrified the town for all, including the remaining "red dots".

Moreover, Elk Grove population continues to grow, and rapidly. Elk Grove earned the title of the fastest growing city in the U.S. between July 1, 2004, and July 1, 2005, and was up there for most of that decade. The housing bust put a damper on that, but Elk Grove continues to grow more rapidly than Sacramento proper. So it isn't "red dot" people moving out, so much as it is "green dot" people moving in.

[Stay West]

I don't know why you think comparing Cupertino, which has a median home value of $1.5 million, to Elk Grove is relevant but I assure you it is not. The communities have nothing in common with each other. A more realistic Bay Area comparison would be something like Antioch. The people moving in have been gentrified out of urban centers and are embracing the failed suburban dream of the late 20th century.

[shelato]

If you want to argue white flight is happening somewhere in the Sacramento region, I would say its happening along the highway 80 corridor especially in the area near the Arden Fair Mall where a lot of the single family homes that had been owner occupied by older retired white people are being replaced by rental units and less white people. But what is happening in Elk Grove is different. A bunch of new housing was built in the last 10 years in Elk Grove and a lot of that was sold to Asian families which changed the overall demographics of Elk Grove as the proportion of Asian people in a lot of the neighborhoods went up.

The reality is this, there are members of the middle class who aren't white and they want to send their kids to schools where they will find other kids in their school who look like them. Right now the Elk Grove School District is getting a lot of those kids. The Stockton Blvd Corridor probably offers the best shopping for goods and foods from Asia in the region. Elk Grove offers plenty of newer housing that is relatively close to these shops, but with better schools than the neighborhoods immediately surrounding the Stockton Blvd Corridor. So that is what is bringing the Asian middle class to Elk Grove.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Stay West

I don't know why you think comparing Cupertino, which has a median home value of $1.5 million, to Elk Grove is relevant but I assure you it is not. The communities have nothing in common with each other. A more realistic Bay Area comparison would be something like Antioch. The people moving in have been gentrified out of urban centers and are embracing the failed suburban dream of the late 20th century.

Because it is a "failed suburban dream" to want better schools and a yard for your kids.

Some may have been gentrified out of successful urban centers, but many are fleeing the failed ones.

And let us look hard at the successful urban centers. The much-ballyhooed and self-celebrating “creative class”—a demographic group that includes not only single professionals but also well-heeled childless couples, empty nesters, and college students—are in those successful urban centers. And the gentrified neighborhoods they have established are not affordable for families.

There's an additional item that nobody ever seems to mention. Many of the young hipsters--all of them renting--that fill up cities like San Francisco are hardly paying their own way. How could unpaid internships support $2,000 rents + $150/wk budgets for booze? The answer: they don't. No, many hipsters are rich kids living on subsidies from their parents in uncool places in suburbs.

Thus, the labor of past generations is supporting the party lifestyle of the "creative class," very few of whom, I should mention, are actually "creating" much of anything. This is not sustainable.

[caligirlz]

Originally Posted by DontKnowIfImComingOrGoing

Ten years.

Awesome. So similar length of time for myself, and some of the others who are active CD users &/or commenting on this topic.