Westfield Exiting Downtown Plaza (Finally !!) (San Diego, San Francisco: real estate market, hotels, house)

[wburg]

Sacramento is dreadfully under-toured--we actually agree on this point. My question was intended to ask, how do we get people past the dreaded I-5 barrier? Sacramento's most interesting spots, from a visitor perspective, are Old Sacramento and Midtown--but it's hard to drag people through Downtown, which for the most part closes at night. Some kind of high-profile attraction might be a solution (and arenas generally don't work for that purpose) while a Wal-Mart certainly wouldn't draw tourists! Something unique and interesting would do the trick--so like Ripley's Believe it Or Not Museum, but not specifically Ripley's Believe it or Not Museum, if you get my drift. The nightlife-oriented direction downtown is taking seems like a step on the right path--it is already drawing more downtown visitors than Second Saturday did at its peak.
I suppose it only hurts things when the Convention & Visitors Bureau actively wants to discourage night-time businesses...

[icametodropbombs]

The last time I was at the K Street mall a few years ago, it was pretty dismal; between the empty stores and the less-than-friendly (and homeless) people walking around there, it just wasn't inviting at all. Sacramento should put something like The Fountains in Roseville there. The Fountains is a really great place for the whole family: it has shopping, a few restaurants, a playground for the kids and they do live shows/concerts there during warmer months. It's really an interesting (and successful) mix of retail and community. If Sacramento could so something akin to that, it might have a winner there.

[NewToCA]

Columbus, Ohio has something similar to The Fountains not too far from their downtown core. The concept might actually be a good evolution of Downtown Plaza, and if done correctly could be a good link between Old Sacramento and Midtown. It is a lot larger than The Fountains but somewhat of a similar concept, except it is more entertainment oriented.

The more I think about it, they could use quite a bit of the existing Westfield's structure and integrate it into a destination center. I'd rather do this than continue to wait for the development of the Railyards.

Easton Town Center | Columbus Ohio | Directory Map Parking

Easton Town Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[wburg]

The problem is that "The Fountains in Roseville" is a suburban mall, and putting a suburban mall in an urban setting rarely works well.

Why would some new project on K Street have to wait until the Railyards is done? They are owned by separate companies, it's not as though they have to wait in line. In fact, the new owners of K Street will most likely have some plan in motion by the time the Railyards hits full steam.

Easton Town Center is 10 miles from their downtown core, so "not too far" is a bit of understatement. It's out past Columbus' airport, far from downtown on the edge of the city! K Street/Downtown Plaza isn't "not too far" from the downtown core, it literally defines the center of the downtown core! Putting a low-rise shopping plaza surrounded by a sea of parking lots in the center of downtown Sacramento was a loser 40 years ago, it is an even worse idea now.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by wburg

The problem is that "The Fountains in Roseville" is a suburban mall, and putting a suburban mall in an urban setting rarely works well.

Why would some new project on K Street have to wait until the Railyards is done? They are owned by separate companies, it's not as though they have to wait in line. In fact, the new owners of K Street will most likely have some plan in motion by the time the Railyards hits full steam.

I wasn't inferring they should wait for the Railyards to be done. Rather I was stating I think this general area should be the focus of downtown development for the rest of the decade.

I don't expect to see anything significant (residential or commercial) in the Railyards before 2020.

[wburg]

So why can't we do both at once? The intermodal is a city project; Downown Plaza is JMA Ventures' project; the Railyards as a whole are Inland's project (at least until they find a subdeveloper to take over.) Besides, the Railyards and K Street are in the same general area. None of this will be able to take advantage of large amounts of city money, because the city doesn't really have any money to hand out since the end of redevelopment and easy TIF.

And if by "significant" you mean "skyscrapers," I'd agree. But I'd expect less-than-"significant" things (such as adaptive reuse, infrastructure and smaller projects) to continue happening during the course of this decade.

[NewToCA]

Sacramento doesn't have the critical mass to support multiple large projects. Infrastructure can only take you so far, it doesn't generate tax revenue. As I pointed out in post #115, I don't expect any residential or commercial (retail or office) construction in the Railyards the rest of this decade.

So the "fun stuff" likely will be more focused on K St and DTP.

[wburg]

Infrastructure doesn't generate revenue in the same way that roads don't take you anywhere. Unlike the Railyards, K Street doesn't need infrastructure. It's also a much smaller project--total of about 15 acres (2.5 acres per city block, 4th-7th between J and L) vs. 240 acres in the Railyards. Again, what's the problem with building infrastructure and starting projects in the Railyards/Richards vicinity at the same time as whatever JMA ends up wanting to do with Downtown Plaza? Both combined are a drop in the bucket compared to North Natomas. By 2020 I'd expect Township 9 to be well underway, the Railroad Technology Museum, the Powerhouse Science Center, and with any amount of luck, some new uses going into the other five Shops buildings--which are privately owned, and would generate tax revenue if put back into use.

[bluevelo]

Originally Posted by wburg

The problem is that "The Fountains in Roseville" is a suburban mall, and putting a suburban mall in an urban setting rarely works well.

Why would some new project on K Street have to wait until the Railyards is done? They are owned by separate companies, it's not as though they have to wait in line. In fact, the new owners of K Street will most likely have some plan in motion by the time the Railyards hits full steam.

Easton Town Center is 10 miles from their downtown core, so "not too far" is a bit of understatement. It's out past Columbus' airport, far from downtown on the edge of the city! K Street/Downtown Plaza isn't "not too far" from the downtown core, it literally defines the center of the downtown core! Putting a low-rise shopping plaza surrounded by a sea of parking lots in the center of downtown Sacramento was a loser 40 years ago, it is an even worse idea now.

And high maintenance, snobby suburbanites are not going to come downtown and get hit up for money by homeless, funky looking people and be hit on by the gangbangers that hang around the K Street Mall.

[icametodropbombs]

Originally Posted by bluevelo

And high maintenance, snobby suburbanites are not going to come downtown and get hit up for money by homeless, funky looking people and be hit on by the gangbangers that hang around the K Street Mall.

Well I can you this: as a Roseville resident, I can't think of much that would lure me to downtown Sacramento at this point in time. I mean for those of us in the Roseville/Rocklin/Granite Bay area, we really do have all the community activities and retail we could want. But I think my comment still stands in that bringing something social, like the Fountains, to downtown Sac could be beneficial. At the fountians, you get the commenity aspect of it with food truck meetups, concerts, playground, etc., while still bringing in the tax money with the shops and restaurants. There is even a Whole Foods there, but that really wouldnt be necessary downtown. I think it's a matter of finding the right blend.

Now, what can be done about the homeless and ghetto thugs over running the place, I dont know.