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Mark, I can't rep you again so soon! But that was a very good point you made. I asked for my last post in this thread to be deleted b/c I got too snarky with World Traveler. She is waay off topic in this thread.
Hoo boy. Where oh where to start? It drives me nuts that in this state alcohol is more strictly regulated than actual weapons whose sole purpose is to inflict harm upon another being. So, your questions:
1) What are some of your biggest problems/concerns with how liquor is handled in Utah?
2) What are some current Utah liquor/alcohol laws that you would like to see changed?
I'm going to roll these into one answer, because 1) stems from the ridiculous nature of 2).
*Stop regulating the alcohol content of beer.
This one would actually go a long way toward normalizing your laws. The stuff you get in the grocery stores here is just not the same. It affects the flavor of the beverage significantly. And, really, we're talking about a single percentage point's difference in alcohol content in most cases. It's really absurd.
*Move away from state-owned stores and get rid of the silly labeling requirements
Allow private enterprise to take this over, please. They will be much more able and willing to respond to market dictates and demands. And the labeling issue, is, again, absurd. I'd like to know what useful purpose it possibly serves.
*Get rid of these undercover sting operations targeting legitimate business operators
It's long since time to get rid of the special alcohol police. It reeks of despotism, frankly.
*End the metered pour
This one kills your bars. People who enjoy a martini just aren't going to get one here. It's that simple. I won't even order a mixed drink here because I know I won't get what I ordered, and it's not worth the money.
Work on these, and then we can begin to talk about correcting the distribution to normalize the prices here.
3) What do you think are some positive benefits to how Utah handles alcohol?
I suppose that depends on your point of view, but I see no tangible benefits. I'm open for a conversation about it, though.
4) For any out-of-staters; what are some of the things you have heard about alcohol laws in Utah?
Never gave it a thought until I started looking into moving here. I looked into it and got the scoop, never been one to rely on rumors. Honestly, the rumors I saw weren't far off the mark, as it's hard to make the laws sound more silly than they are.
5) To those that have been in Utah DABC retail stores; what were some of your general overall perceptions?
I've only been in a couple, and they are generally ok. Do they have everything you might look for? How could they? Again, privatizing this would allow for specialty retailers. If you're not going to do that, at least open more stores, because the well stocked ones are sometimes a nightmare to get in and out of.
So, that's my brief, brutally honest take on the situation. In short, it's pretty insulting for a responsible tax-paying adult to be subjected to this 'parenting' by the state.
what does kind of surprise me is how many DUI accidents and deaths there are due to drunk drivers in Utah. Considering the considerable quashing of it's use overall. I don't think a day goes by without someone being run over by or broadsided and injured or killed by a drunk driver running a red light, or even like that one lately where the wheelchair bound guy waiting for a bus was run over on the sidewalk. Geez can't they give a guy a break. What do you have to do be behind a brick wall to be safe against these drunk drivers? Also what is abominable is the number of multiple offender DUI drivers out there driving around. It's just plain scary.
Personal consumption is one thing, but loud parties and raucous behavior is a real drag when you're in a otherwise quiet neighborhood and people start drinking and all heck breaks loose. I've watched groups of guys entering homes with multiple 12 packs of beer preparing for a weekend drunk. To think they leave that house after the party and get in their cars and head home is a tough enough thought. Personal use of alcohol is not an issue when it is consumed responsibly. But I have to admit. the largest percentage of users I observe are anything BUT responsible looking folks. But as someone said earlier, you can't regulate or legislate stupid...........
Utah does not have the teeth in the laws or the desire to enforce what we do have. There have been too many cases (can't remember his name) like the guy who had about 12 DUis, served time, came back out and hit someone. He was on the news last year. That is jsut one example.
1) What are some of your biggest problems/concerns with how liquor is handled in Utah?
The general idea that liquor is evil. I think it's my job to ensure my children do not drink. I think it's my job to not drink and drive and to ensure that others around me do not. If they do, then punish them. But attempting to control a population into not drinking by making it more annoying for them to obtain it is nothing more then annoying!
2) What are some current Utah liquor/alcohol laws that you would like to see changed?
Wine in grocery stores. I have to go to a state store to get a bottle of Vodka for Saturday night.. fine. But it's nothing but a nuisance to drive 1/2 way across town to get bottle of wine for my guests to enjoy at dinner. I'm already busy planning and cooking dinner. Also, I don't go out much, as my children are young, but the few times I've sat down to have a drink in public I've found it very annoying that I have to finish one drink before I can get another one. If you've ever been in a busy restaurant or bar then you know.. you order a drink when you can get the bartender's attention. if you have to wait till you've drained your glass, then your sitting there thirsty for 20 minutes.
3) What do you think are some positive benefits to how Utah handles alcohol?
I haven't looked at the statistics on DUI's or teen drinking in UT vs other states so I can't say for certain. I can say this though.... if a person wants to get drunk, they will. If a person is stupid enough to drink and drive they will.. if not from a bar, then from someone's house.
4) For any out-of-staters; what are some of the things you have heard about alcohol laws in Utah?
before we moved here my husband told me about it... he had all the facts cause his family lives here and he's visited. I have to say that it really put me off. it didn't keep us from moving but it didn't encourage our decision, either.
5) To those that have been in Utah DABC retail stores; what were some of your general overall perceptions?
The employees have no knowledge of their stock. In other states you go into a store with fine wine and the clerk is able to help you pick a bottle. They should have at least some beer cold. Your friends are coming over and you run to the store to get some beer for them and then you have to fill a cooler just to get it cold to offer your friends a cold beer when they show up. but I think the most annoying thing is the lack of anything non-alcoholic. It's Friday night and I want a martini on the deck. I have to go to two stores cause the state store doesn't have mixers. If they had a small section of tonics, lemons, mixers and the basics it would save a ton of people a ton of time... heck, jack up the price on them, it's worth it when you in a hurry.
So I think that the selection in the state is ok, and the prices, while a bit higher, aren't breaking the bank. The only bad thing, and I think most people would agree with me.. is just the annoyance of it all. the average person wants to stop by a store on their way home from work and pick up a cold beer or their gin and tonic at the same place. It doesn't mean we're bad and it doesn't make us alcoholics.. but I get the feeling that the state wants us to think that we are for some reason.
The National Survey on Drug Use and Health for 2008 indicates that Utah had the very lowest percentage of adults driving under the influence of alcohol (9.8%) compared to the highest in the country Wisconsin (26.4%)
Utah liquor laws as well as the prevailing culture which discourages the consumption of alcohol play a role in these low numbers.
I personally have no problem with people having a glass of wine or a beer with dinner. I think you can make arguments that Utah liquor laws should be less restrictive. I don't think making people drive all the way across town to purchase wine is a really good idea. Alot of people don't realize something else either. You don't see many establishments that serve hard liquor because the number of licenses that DABC can issue is severely restricted. There is a set number they cannot go beyond that are available in different geographic areas.
As I've gotten older, I see it as a mixed bag. The vast majority of drinkers are not dangerous alcoholics. They simply enjoy a little refreshment with meals or at a party. However, there is no question that the more prevalent alcohol is in an area the more drunk driving you will see. I don't think its a sufficient rationalization to just say things like "well put them in jail if they break the law". The consequences of drunk driving may include deaths and serious injuries to innocent third parties. Maybe restrictive liquor laws aren't so bad.
yup obviously prohibition was a bad idea because of all of the crime that came out of it. there are also people out there that can have a glass of wine with dinner or a cocktail anytime and be ok. there are people with addictions and there are people that just enjoy to have a drink once in a while. some doctors even say people should have a glass of wine every once in a while. everything in moderation. you can't overdo anything that just spells bad news. but don't look down on people that want to have a cocktail once in a while. for some people having a cocktail is like splurging on a piece of cheesecake. so for people that are overweight are you going to outlaw everything they eat, so for people that like those energy drinks that i hate, are you going to outlaw them? how about carbs too many carbs are bad so we should put a limit on those too right. we live in America and we have laws to regulate alcohol use. sure i think people should be able to have a drink, but should they drive NO WAY! If they are being safe who cares. i was on ksl today and they were talking about the alcohol laws in Utah and someone was saying alcohol should be outlawed cause they don't want to see the drunk people everywhere. I've never seen drunk people roaming around in Utah, ok when i was in college maybe but that was different. someone finally made the answer that i've gotten when i've talked about things on this forum how badly i've been treated by some locals and they say if you don't like it leave Utah, so if you don't like that private clubs aren't so private anymore leave utah, I've never been so insulted in any other state than I have been in this state and I don't understand, because growing up in NY I always believed that the LDS religion was accepting, friendly and just all around good people! I have met good LDS people that are that way but why should I be treated differently because I go to a different church? That's not fair and not right!
1) What are some of your biggest problems/concerns with how liquor is handled in Utah?
The general idea that liquor is evil. I think it's my job to ensure my children do not drink. I think it's my job to not drink and drive and to ensure that others around me do not. If they do, then punish them. But attempting to control a population into not drinking by making it more annoying for them to obtain it is nothing more then annoying!
2) What are some current Utah liquor/alcohol laws that you would like to see changed?
Wine in grocery stores. I have to go to a state store to get a bottle of Vodka for Saturday night.. fine. But it's nothing but a nuisance to drive 1/2 way across town to get bottle of wine for my guests to enjoy at dinner. I'm already busy planning and cooking dinner. Also, I don't go out much, as my children are young, but the few times I've sat down to have a drink in public I've found it very annoying that I have to finish one drink before I can get another one. If you've ever been in a busy restaurant or bar then you know.. you order a drink when you can get the bartender's attention. if you have to wait till you've drained your glass, then your sitting there thirsty for 20 minutes.
3) What do you think are some positive benefits to how Utah handles alcohol?
I haven't looked at the statistics on DUI's or teen drinking in UT vs other states so I can't say for certain. I can say this though.... if a person wants to get drunk, they will. If a person is stupid enough to drink and drive they will.. if not from a bar, then from someone's house.
4) For any out-of-staters; what are some of the things you have heard about alcohol laws in Utah?
before we moved here my husband told me about it... he had all the facts cause his family lives here and he's visited. I have to say that it really put me off. it didn't keep us from moving but it didn't encourage our decision, either.
5) To those that have been in Utah DABC retail stores; what were some of your general overall perceptions?
The employees have no knowledge of their stock. In other states you go into a store with fine wine and the clerk is able to help you pick a bottle. They should have at least some beer cold. Your friends are coming over and you run to the store to get some beer for them and then you have to fill a cooler just to get it cold to offer your friends a cold beer when they show up. but I think the most annoying thing is the lack of anything non-alcoholic. It's Friday night and I want a martini on the deck. I have to go to two stores cause the state store doesn't have mixers. If they had a small section of tonics, lemons, mixers and the basics it would save a ton of people a ton of time... heck, jack up the price on them, it's worth it when you in a hurry.
So I think that the selection in the state is ok, and the prices, while a bit higher, aren't breaking the bank. The only bad thing, and I think most people would agree with me.. is just the annoyance of it all. the average person wants to stop by a store on their way home from work and pick up a cold beer or their gin and tonic at the same place. It doesn't mean we're bad and it doesn't make us alcoholics.. but I get the feeling that the state wants us to think that we are for some reason.
I agree with you, by the way the liquor store near us has one cool feature they have a thing that you can chill your wine in for a couple of minutes to make it cold when you get home, that's pretty cool! anyway I wish utah was like everyone other state. I'm from NY and believe me we have tons of bars and liquor stores and parties but if you drive drunk you're in jail. you just have to be a responsible drinker and for some reason the state of Utah doesn't trust adults to think for themselves!
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