Artisan Park Townhomes (San Antonio, Victoria, Keller: low income, real estate, apartments)

[Strongarm Samson]

Dear All,

My wife and I are relocating to San Antonio (which we're excited about) and are curious about the Artisan Park Townhomes. This is a dense development in the area roughly bounded by the 37 freeway and Refugio, Leigh and Labor streets. The prices are reasonable and the houses look decent. Can anyone tell me a bit about what the area is like? Has there been any particular buzz (positive or negative) about this development?

Many thanks for your replies.

[Chaka]

I live in the neighborhood (Lavaca) in which Artisan Park is situated. The land where these townhomes are used to be Victoria Courts, one of the more notorious housing projects full of gangs and crime. Hence, the neighborhood for some time was typical inner city ghetto. However, 10 yrs ago or so, some urban-professional types started moving in and worked to restore the area and get it declared historic. In 2002 (when I moved in), the Courts were torn down and the situation in the area changed dramatically.

It's still very much a transitional neighborhood, but one quite well into its restoration. It hasn't totally been gentrified and the overall aim is to keep it affordable for the old timers (many people who grew up in the 'hood, whose parents and grandparents grew up there and were first owners of their houses around the turn of the century). The result is that you have some very nice places next to some that look less than desirable. Most of the homes are in various states of repair, as the newcomers tend to be folks who have bought the old run-down houses and are slowly fixing them up (as opposed to flippers who buy cheap, fix cheap, and sell high - altho some of those exist too). The community is a wonderful mix of income/education/ethnicity/social class. What it lacks is a decent grocery store, otherwise it's easy walking to downtown and all the amenities that make Southtown great - see this site for more about Southtown Southtown - San Antonio Arts District, San Antonio, TX

Artisan Park is kind of on the edge of the neighborhood.

I've seen some of the townhomes and they look wonderful. The few people I know who live there are very happy. There are also the Refugio Commons apartments which are in the same development, across the street from the townhomes. These are a mix of low income and market rate. The standards to live there are fairly high for the low income, but I've heard 3rd/4th hand buzz that the apartment walls are thin and not great. However, no one *I* know in the townhomes has complained about that being a problem.

Personally, they're all a little too close to the highway for me (my house is a few blocks further in, so the highway noise gets muffled). But I wouldn't live anywhere else in San Antonio.

[lemonfresh]

Chaka, I believe the courts were demolished in 1999 or 2000.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by lemonfresh

Chaka, I believe the courts were demolished in 1999 or 2000.

I moved to SA in Fall 2001. Visited the area in June of 2002 and they were still there. I started renting in August 2002 and it was a field.....

Here are some older planning documents http://www.sanantonio.gov/planning/n...al%20Draft.pdf


Ok, just did some more searching. Apparently SAHA applied for the grant to demolish it in 1998. I found some news articles saying they planned to start moving people out in 1999, but looks like it took a lot longer to finalize. Some news reports state they began demolishing some of the units in 2001 - quotes say it "took 2 years to demolish." I also found a court document dated 2001 that stated 50% of the units had been demolished as of the time of writing of the document.

I vividly recall parking on Labor St next to the Courts when I went to Texas Folklife Festival in June 2002, and there were buildings with people there....maybe they were squatters. My friend was paranoid to park there because he had a fancy car.... When I went back a month later to look at a rental, it was all flat. Now it's illegal to park there and they block the neighborhood off during downtown events

[lemonfresh]

You're right, my mistake.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by lemonfresh

You're right, my mistake.

Actually, I think we were both right. From the documents, it looks like it all began in 1999....

Oh, and clarification on Refugio Commons (the apartments) - supposed to be 25% low income public housing, 25% affordable housing (whatever that means) and 50% market rate. A couple of years ago, the developers tried to change that to a greater than 50% public housing (it would give them more grant money to continue building), but the community fought that hard and won. While most in the community were very willing to accept 25% public housing with high standards (such as no crime records...), the reality is that when you get upwards of 50%, the dynamics change and the community had worked so hard to restore the area already. Even those already in public housing there were opposed to increasing it (many were former Courts residents who didn't want to see a return of the old days). And it was clear the developers weren't interested in providing public housing, they just wanted public money to finish.....

In any case, the townhomes are beautiful, with a great view of the Tower of the Americas and perfect for NYE fireworks


And more on Lavaca http://www.sanantonio.gov/Historic/d...Guidelines.pdf (this includes a picture of my house, before its revitalization)

[DellaStreet1965]

I have had my eye on these condos for years now, but have not bought because they have not finished out the project. They apparently ran out of money. They did two blocks and quit, the literature promises a community center and pool that is secured by fencing for residents only. Meanwhile real estate company after real estate company takes over the listing trying to unload the condos that are existing. They even have the nerve to charge HOA fees! For what? The apartments are rampant with tagging, car windows broken out constantly, petty theft of anything left on a balcony, the neighborhood is still filled with all little criminals. Go to mysanantonio.com and check the crimebase using the street address. These condos are almost five years old, sitting there empty. Six months ago the one I wanted was $158K and now I see Keller Williams raised the price to $268K. And now out in front of the apartments along Durango where the development was supposed to build townhomes they have built something big and horrid that looks like concrete parking garages, or prisons! No windows, just three story concrete with stairs and single doors at the ends, and they took out all the giant oak trees that were there, dozens and dozens of them. The signs have been there for years and are still posted at the end of each block saying "coming soon - Artisan Park Townhomes" as if that is what they are building, but big concrete parking garages are what is going up.

[Randy.G.Majek]

Sorry this is so late. We live there. Best deal for downtown living in San Antonio. Could not be happier. Great choice with outstanding neighbors. Hopefully you haven't already bought something!

[LindaGrace]

Originally Posted by Randy.G.Majek

Sorry this is so late. We live there. Best deal for downtown living in San Antonio. Could not be happier. Great choice with outstanding neighbors. Hopefully you haven't already bought something!

Oh, that's excellent! Great to hear.

My husband and I drove over by there a week or so ago. We love the look of the places, but it's a little farther from the med center (work) than we wanted to be.

[Randy.G.Majek]

Let me respond to Della's comments above. She is correct, the condos have not sold out. The project has not run out of money. Grants monies set aside cannot be utilized until phase I is totally sold out. With regards to the "horrible" structure, it is a parking garage that will be surrounded by apartments. It is the European style of donwtown living as evidenced also in the Vistana going up downtown. The interior consists of parking and living is to the exterior. A new concept to San Antonio, but not other urban areas. As I noted, the Vistana downtown is the first to really work this concept. Hope that helps to clarity.