San Diego Hi-Tech Salaries Why So Low? (San Jose, Sunnyvale: rentals, car insurance)

[NYSD1995]

We've lost more large employers in the last 10 years than we did the prior year, and the startups are not enough to recover those jobs. If you were in tech in 2005 it was a much better market. Most of the guys I know in their 40's can't find real jobs and do some kind of self-employment gig (if they are talented and driven enough) and a fair amount of them are bailing or living off of their parents. It's the end of the cycle now, I expect more contraction over the next 5-10 years. Home equity is propping up a lot of middle class folks.

The paradise tax often is connected with the lowered expectations of people who move somewhere for weather. We've given up on relocating candidates - we can't get experienced professionals to relocate here even with a generous relocation stipend and six figure salaries, it's just not enough. They say they want to move here and then they we fly them out and see what their money gets and they stay put. The folks who want to move here, will do so regardless, they or their wife has a job or family here and we can hire them after they've moved at a lower salary and no relo. Sunshine tax in operation.

[elchevere]

Unrelated, but on the topic of tech, my firm--a bellwether semiconductor company--announced earlier this week that as of April 1 employees will no longer be able to purchase additional company stock as part of the 401K program. Existing money can remain but new contributions will not be allowed after that date. They stated this decision aligns with competitive practice as many industry peers and other large companies have taken similar action with respect to company stock...has me wondering if they see dark storm clouds gathering on the horizon.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

We've lost more large employers in the last 10 years than we did the prior year, and the startups are not enough to recover those jobs. If you were in tech in 2005 it was a much better market. Most of the guys I know in their 40's can't find real jobs and do some kind of self-employment gig (if they are talented and driven enough) and a fair amount of them are bailing or living off of their parents. It's the end of the cycle now, I expect more contraction over the next 5-10 years. Home equity is propping up a lot of middle class folks.

The paradise tax often is connected with the lowered expectations of people who move somewhere for weather. We've given up on relocating candidates - we can't get experienced professionals to relocate here even with a generous relocation stipend and six figure salaries, it's just not enough. They say they want to move here and then they we fly them out and see what their money gets and they stay put. The folks who want to move here, will do so regardless, they or their wife has a job or family here and we can hire them after they've moved at a lower salary and no relo. Sunshine tax in operation.

I'd say the ones with families are the ones who will not move often, DINK'S not so much plus if the salary for one or the other balances out the cost of living. Many I know in their 40's could care less about owning a home at this point, especially after the housing fiasco in Miami that many went through, I didn't buy because I had no long term plans of staying or paying bubble prices. Plenty do not feel the stability their parents or grandparents had, face it the market is more volatile and jobs just do not last 30 years anymore.

Times are changing, a lot of recruiters are telling me they cannot get many experienced Engineers to relocate to the Valley, appears the local universities still cannot churn out enough talent to learn on the job after all.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by elchevere

Unrelated, but on the topic of tech, my firm--a bellwether semiconductor company--announced earlier this week that as of April 1 employees will no longer be able to purchase additional company stock as part of the 401K program. Existing money can remain but new contributions will not be allowed after that date. They stated this decision aligns with competitive practice as many industry peers and other large companies have taken similar action with respect to company stock...has me wondering if they see dark storm clouds gathering on the horizon.

The bubble will soon pop, I'm calling it this year, 3rd quarter.

[Pedro2000]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

We've lost more large employers in the last 10 years than we did the prior year, and the startups are not enough to recover those jobs. If you were in tech in 2005 it was a much better market. Most of the guys I know in their 40's can't find real jobs and do some kind of self-employment gig (if they are talented and driven enough) and a fair amount of them are bailing or living off of their parents. It's the end of the cycle now, I expect more contraction over the next 5-10 years. Home equity is propping up a lot of middle class folks.

The paradise tax often is connected with the lowered expectations of people who move somewhere for weather. We've given up on relocating candidates - we can't get experienced professionals to relocate here even with a generous relocation stipend and six figure salaries, it's just not enough. They say they want to move here and then they we fly them out and see what their money gets and they stay put. The folks who want to move here, will do so regardless, they or their wife has a job or family here and we can hire them after they've moved at a lower salary and no relo. Sunshine tax in operation.

It's part salary and it's also part growth. If you're any good at what you do you start to look at more than just salary. And sadly there just aren't many companies in SD that offer the other aspects people look for. SD likes to tout itself as analytics, data science, infosec but if you actually dig into that space you start to realize there just aren't that many who actually do any of that. Or they have a sales/marketing office here and the people who do the hardcore analysis or machine learning are elsewhere. Or it's a 4 person startup that will sell or never grow beyond that. Hell, there is a infosec software company here that doesn't build any of the actual infosec software in the US. Which means they don't actually have real infosec developer and analytic's jobs here.

That's the problem with SD many times as it's image over reality. There are far too many companies in SD that claim to be "tech" and they really have a few tech guys or none at all as it's just outsourced or contracted out. If you're an outsider or just use wikipedia or CNN like reports, you'd assume there are tons of jobs, but if you dig a little deeper or actually are in the space, you start to learn about who really does something and who really is just all media and marketing hype.

Nothing like seeing a data scientist job and learning it's more like a Jr excel spreadsheet business analyst that pays nothing. Or somebody needs a big data developer and the data can fit on your 32GB phone. Or there is a white hate opening, but most of your time is spent doing help desk employee support stuff. Or even worse they are a bigger company that actually has all the latest and greatest hyped technologies, but half of it isn't used or it just collect dusts. And they spent millions on these tools. Not exactly the same thing.

So when you're good and have options, you don't just look at one job. Many people, especially in technology, jump ship every few years. So if that's the case you probably do research to see what else is around, what kind of growth, what kind of companies, what kind of startups, what kind of employees, the demographics, and so on.

Places like the Bay Area, Seattle, NYC, and even LA have a lot of similar hyped BS companies, but there are a lot of interesting things to work on and real possibilities, even if only for a few years. And then you jump ship and find something else cool. That happens all the time, especially in the Bay Area and Seattle. SD is more jump ship and wind up working for some company that is more interested in marketing BS than providing anything real to do. Plus there just is no VC or Angel investment here, so even if you're a real tech startup, you probably wind up leaving anyway. Or if you're an employee you'd have to move.

Huge difference that most people on the outside don't understand or people on the inside pretend like it's not the case or they are more inclined to have that 9-5 mindset and be in trouble by the time they are 40 because everybody else passed them skills wise and 22 year olds are cheaper.

Sometimes it's not just the salary, which SD falls short on in many instances as it is, but it's also growth and other opportunities. If you're really good at what you do in technology, SD is probably one of the last places you'd move to for a job. Now if you work remote or travel often or are tired of the 100 hour work weeks or are more a marketing/sales type pushing hype over real technology, and have money, SD is an awesome place.

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by mixxalot

I have lived and worked both in San Diego and in Silicon Valley/SF area. Pay is almost 30% better in Silicon Valley but living cost also 30% higher as well. BUT if you work for a SF/SV based company in San Diego the pay is decent. I keep getting low ball offers from tech recruiters in San Diego who offer only 90-120K for a VERY senior laundry list engineering job compared to the 200K salaries for the same job in the bay area.

But everyone knows that average salaries in the Bay Area are at least 30% or more than everywhere else in the country, except maybe DC. Not sure why you're surprised to find salaries so much lower here.

And while I'm not part of the tech scene, Robert Half just released a salary survey for tech jobs showing that salaries in SD aren't as low as some people like to make them out to be. As per usual, The Bay Area, Seattle, Boston, DC and NYC are all at the top with SD ranking just beneath them. Any truth to this? Average salaries by city start on page 16.

https://www.roberthalf.com/sites/def...lary_guide.pdf

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by tstieber

The 'sunshine tax' is a myth. Silicon Valley is one of the sunniest parts of the country; in fact, San Jose has more than 300 days of sun per year -- more than San Diego -- yet nobody makes that excuse there (or in Phoenix, Vegas, Sacramento, or Denver, which are also Sunny cities but with lower costs of living). Why is San Diego's sunshine more valuable than any other place? Maybe it's not the sunshine itself but the proximity to the beach that is most valuable, but if that were the case, then why is cost of living in Florida so much cheaper than here? The truth is, we make excuses for the low salaries and accept them blindly.

The sunshine tax applies mostly when comparing SD to other high cost cities like Boston, NYC, Seattle, Bay Area and DC. You will never find any sources showing average salaries are higher in places like Atlanta, Dallas, Cleveland or Phoenix. But if you can, please post them here.

[the topper]

Very few high flying tech companies. Some of the established companies are struggling like Qualcomm.

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by the topper

Very few high flying tech companies. Some of the established companies are struggling like Qualcomm.

Don't disagree, but what about average salaries? Lots of engineers in SD

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by sdurbanite

But everyone knows that average salaries in the Bay Area are at least 30% or more than everywhere else in the country, except maybe DC. Not sure why you're surprised to find salaries so much lower here.

And while I'm not part of the tech scene, Robert Half just released a salary survey for tech jobs showing that salaries in SD aren't as low as some people like to make them out to be. As per usual, The Bay Area, Seattle, Boston, DC and NYC are all at the top with SD ranking just beneath them. Any truth to this? Average salaries by city start on page 16.

https://www.roberthalf.com/sites/def...lary_guide.pdf

The document you linked only focuses on one part of STEM related positions, seems mainly per IT, does not really go into other Tech, Hardware Enginering, Electrical, or Medical Device.