Here we go again shutting down the forests (Santa Rosa: lease, appliances)

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by NORTY FLATZ

Oh no! Right before "FREE FISHING DAY!" (Yes, Saturday Sep. 04, 2021 is a "no license needed day" for fishing.) You'll still need to abide by all the rules & regs, but no license needed, that day.)

As you say, watch Newsome close the ocean again...

Just went up and checked game cams. It seems these guys can handle anything local and even they wonder why the closure order.


https://mtlaguna.org/our-cabins/mt-l...re-department/

[citizensadvocate]

I am pretty surprised wide open nature or no mans land can be "closed" or anything that is not in an enclosure and/or require admission i.e(building, facilities walled or fenced in and controlled with doors and gates). Especially if you have state highways, towns, and people's property on it. I always thought for large swath of land or regions is considered declaration of a mandatory evacuation area or curfew. I.e beach curfew. Though facilities ran by the National forest within the National forest i.e camp grounds can be taken out of commission and reservations cancelled.

I be curious how the order applies to native american tribes in those areas. As well as those who have property on there.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

I am pretty surprised wide open nature or no mans land can be "closed" or anything that is not in an enclosure and/or require admission i.e(building, facilities walled or fenced in and controlled with doors and gates). Especially if you have state highways, towns, and people's property on it. I always thought for large swath of land or regions is considered declaration of a mandatory evacuation area or curfew. I.e beach curfew. Though facilities ran by the National forest within the National forest i.e camp grounds can be taken out of commission and reservations cancelled.

I be curious how the order applies to native american tribes in those areas. As well as those who have property on there.

There are thousands of people that live in these areas and they issue keys to the gates for the chosen few. So, they basically treat it like one big private property for these folks. In the more populated areas they post up a "guard" so to speak to check DLs for addresses like a checkpoint to keep regular serfs out.

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

There are thousands of people that live in these areas and they issue keys to the gates for the chosen few. So, they basically treat it like one big private property for these folks. In the more populated areas they post up a "guard" so to speak to check DLs for addresses like a checkpoint to keep regular serfs out.

Though do they block the state highways or Interstates that go through these areas? As for some who live beyond the forest the roads are the only ways to get though?

I bet "surfers" (this term being controversial in a social term) Would love it if only residents are only allowed in their favorite surf spots as I heard they frown upon surf spots being crowded by those with rental boards or just from somewhere else.

I was surprised though hearing they actually closed Borrego springs or Ocotillo wells last year as those are countless miles of wide open lands with absolutely no fences, gates, and highways running through them. Not to mention plenty of social distancing. Maybe closing the visitor center and campsites but wide open spaces?

Its true that it appears everything the light touches is literally just one big private property these days. School yards in my area are completely blocked by one large fence during summer vacation with signs saying private property on it.

[tstieber]

Originally Posted by NYSD1995

This has been happening annually in some form for about 5 years. People forget but there were huge fires in CO, WA and British Columbia starting around 2014. I have had to cancel many trips due to these mega-fires. I think you guys are overestimating the staffing levels of the NF system. It is really very minimal. They pull fire resources from all over the state to deal with these mega fires, so you end up with areas that have essentially no fire service.

Exactly this! Too many firefighting resources are concentrated in specific areas, and if another fire breaks out here, we are screwed. Luckily, the Caldor Fire is getting more containment, and we were told these forests shutdowns are only for a couple of weeks. Once that fire is under control, they can divert resources back down here. We can only handle so many enormous Fires at a time. Why everybody makes everything political, I have no idea.

[Teacher Terry]

My son’s friend works for the forestry department and is being pulled off his job to drive supplies to firefighters. They work 14 days on sleeping on cots and then get 2 weeks off. If they need to pull regular 8-5 staff for this then they are don’t have enough staff to leave the parks open. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

My son’s friend works for the forestry department and is being pulled off his job to drive supplies to firefighters. They work 14 days on sleeping on cots and then get 2 weeks off. If they need to pull regular 8-5 staff for this then they are don’t have enough staff to leave the parks open. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

So why is BLM and other areas still open and staffed? Why is this so hard to understand? 15 million acres of land and a bunch of it is forest. Please explain? How does BLM stay open when? We need a genius to explain, so let's have one.

[Teacher Terry]

I now understand why you chose your username. Enjoy arguing with yourself.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

I now understand why you chose your username. Enjoy arguing with yourself.

Thanks for the explanation of blm land being open while the adjacent California national forest is closed. They are literally one and the same.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

So why is BLM and other areas still open and staffed? Why is this so hard to understand? 15 million acres of land and a bunch of it is forest. Please explain? How does BLM stay open when? We need a genius to explain, so let's have one.

Sure I can help. BLM is not the same as NF or NPS. BLM is essentially federally owned and banked land. There is typically minimal land use and it's managed by land managers. There are no rangers, no infrastructure to patrol or protect. No fire or public safety resources. Usually BLM land is the most undesirable land possible, with no commercial or recreational use. Think desert floor or areas that can't be accessed by vehicles. We go to some BLM spots in the Mojave to climb and they are trashed with broken glass, shell casings from decades back. If you have ever been to the Pit in Bishop or the wasteland playa north side of the highway in Joshua Tree, that is typical BLM land. No stewards, no one to clean it up, no toilets, no nothing.

NF is heavily managed land. NF manages land uses that includes all the productive uses including forestry, telecommunications, transportation, mining & extraction. So in the NF, you have a lot of commercial use going on at all times, that's why there are so many roads in NF, it's for commercial use. NF staff includes rangers, communications officers, fire, forestry, etc. Recreational use of NF is pretty small on the whole - most of the heavily used recreational areas are either NPS, State, or some sort of multi-agency juris (i.e. Whitney Zone). NF is part of USDA which manages agricultural commercial land use. NPS is devoted entirely to recreational use.