Living in the city or the suburbs? (San Francisco, Oakland: cheap apartments, for rent)

[JJJingleMeyerSchmidt]

Hi all this is my first post to this forum. I know there has been a lot of threads about where to live in the bay but I have not seen many that compare city life to life in the suburbs.

I am going to be attending school in downtown San Francisco and I have to figure out where I want to live. I lived in suburbs my entire life. I could afford an apartment near union square but I could not afford parking so I would not have a car. If I live outside of the city I will be forced to commute during rush hour 5 days a week via some form of public transport. I have no experience with (or desire to experience) public transport in this country.

At this point I am pretty torn. I have been without a car before and it is difficult. I have lived in the South Bay for about 4 years now and I have never ridden any form of public transport but I imagine it would be like the SF Library full of bums yelling expletives and people getting stabbed. If I lived outside the city I would probably live in Oakland or Daly City.

Living in the city is tempting because I have never done it. I worry about the noise and the safety though.


Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[mayorhaggar]

Be warned that any apartment that says it is in or near Union Square is almost always in the Tenderloin. I see a lot of apartment ads that say they are in Nob Hill, Union Square, or "downtown" and then you click on the map link and it's in the middle of the Tenderloin. Pretty much anywhere west of Powell is in the Tenderloin and south of I'd say California.

As for public transit, it is fine here. If you ride the Muni Metro from the west of downtown, honestly 90% of the riders are yuppies and lawyers and tech people going to work downtown. It is kind of a crappy service because it constantly gets stuck in the tunnels or breaks down, but the ridership is very hoity toity. The buses are less likely to get stuck but they are very slow and can get super crowded. Most buses are full of totally normal people going to work but some lines like the 14 Mission bus can definitely be full of sketchy people though most of the time it's just normal working class people going to work. BART going north to downtown through SF is more working class people than the Muni Metro but not really any scary people. Going from the East Bay to SF it's a mix of working class people and wealthy people.

The coverage and frequency of the transit here is a lot better than in the South Bay but it can get very crowded and Muni is often unpredictable, BART less so. If you don't like crowds and rarely having to be on the same train or bus as a homeless person then you're probably not going to enjoy being in San Francisco which is about 95% normal people and yuppies with a few crazies and homeless people which generally don't bother anyone.

If you live in Oakland or Daly City without a car then you certainly won't be walking to downtown SF. Check out Rockridge in Oakland which is more affordable than San Francisco but nicer and if you are near the Rockridge BART station you can walk to the train then take it into the city. It's a nice area, I am moving there this weekend. More suburban and spread out than SF but still fairly dense and there are a ton of very nice shops and restaurants up and down College Ave.

[JJJingleMeyerSchmidt]

If I live outside of the city then I would definitely have a car. The apartments I have been looking at are between 3 and 5 blocks from union square as far as I can tell. I am not really sure if that would put me in the Tenderloin or not. Also can you hear gunshots in Rockridge? I have a friend that lives a block from Lake Merit and I have heard gun shots on more than one occasion.

[mayorhaggar]

As I said if you are west of Powell and "near union square" then you are pretty definitely in the Tenderloin. The bad part of the TL starts right west of Powell. There is a very swanky Hilton at Powell and literally one block west of it there are blocks with hundreds of homeless men lying around. Union Square itself is just one city block. East of Powell it's a lot nicer but apartments are expensive there, pretty much any cheap apartments in SF are in the Tenderloin and advertise themselves as "downtown," "in Nob Hill" or "near Union Square," etc etc. If you want to live in SF I would advise pretty much anywhere else that isn't the Southeast part of the city east of Mission and south of around 15th street.

Rockridge is fine and is like the Noe Valley of Oakland. It's not Lake Merritt. You could get by without a car. I don't think you'd want to drive over the Bay Bridge at rush hour and struggle to find parking that isn't $30-50 a day in downtown SF when you can take BART for $3.50 and get to downtown SF in 25-30 minutes.

[calisnuffy]

You can commute from the Peninsula using Caltrains which is a safe, reasonable and efficient way to get to the city, switch to Muni and you can get to any part of the city.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by JJJingleMeyerSchmidt

Also can you hear gunshots in Rockridge? I have a friend that lives a block from Lake Merit and I have heard gun shots on more than one occasion.

Hearing gunshots is not at all a normal occurence in either Lake Merritt area or Rockridge. Rockridge is actually upscale and some areas that surround Lake Merritt are too.

How much are you looking to spend for housing each month? That might help us pinpoint areas that suit your needs.

[lmk1707]

Originally Posted by JJJingleMeyerSchmidt

If I live outside of the city then I would definitely have a car. The apartments I have been looking at are between 3 and 5 blocks from union square as far as I can tell. I am not really sure if that would put me in the Tenderloin or not. Also can you hear gunshots in Rockridge? I have a friend that lives a block from Lake Merit and I have heard gun shots on more than one occasion.

My guess is you were hearing the fireworks - people set them off in the Lake Merritt area all the time; there are almost never gunshot incidents.

[JJJingleMeyerSchmidt]

Well I did not see any fireworks...only the blues and twos of police and medevac. My friend that lives near Lake Merit says gun shots are not normal but they do happen. Also the gun shots always sound to be in the distance...not like next door or anything. I do not like leaving his place late at night...there are lots of creepers. I am willing to spend up to $1500 a month for rent (less of course would be better). I would prefer a 1 bedroom but I would live in a studio. Also since it sounds like the city is a no no I would like there to be secured parking which I would be willing to pay extra for.

[sonarrat]

Sometimes change is good. Sometimes you commit to it and then you realize it really sucks. That's a personal judgment call whether you really want to be in the thick of it. At any rate, Union Square isn't only walkable from the Tenderloin.. you could also look into the South of Market or the "Tendernob" which is northeast of there going towards Nob Hill. But I'll think you'll find quickly, as scary as it can be sometimes on public transit, it's a lot safer than walking around by yourself in a big city with a massive drug problem.. and certainly cheaper than trying to park in downtown San Francisco.

[mayorhaggar]

I told you the city would be fine so long as you don't live in the dang Tenderloin, where you would also be likely to hear gunshots. There are other areas near downtown that are not the Tenderloin, mainly North Beach and Telegraph Hill which are walking distance. Also South of Market (SOMA). Nob Hill and Russian Hill are further west. If you lived somewhere like Noe Valley you could get around without a car and take the J-Church metro line downtown and I guarantee you that you would be surrounded by yuppies on the train.

Are you actually thinking of driving to downtown SF and parking there? That would get very expensive. Again if you take BART then you're right there and don't have to deal with the trouble and expense of finding parking.