Is it worth moving to san francisco? (San Diego: lease, mortgage)

[u225615]

Originally Posted by pranali43

Hello everyone,

My husband is in IT and has to relocate a lot for projects and his next project that he might get would be in San Francisco, CA. They are giving him a $5 raise where his annual income comes to $86000 approx. We have a mortgage of $1400 a month for our house in PA. Will it be too expensive to live in San Francisco or the surrounding suburbs considering we will have two sets of housing expenses? I don't work so it is only his income.

Since you stated you will have two sets of housing expenses that $1400 will obviously need to be factored in when determining if the NET income of $86000 a year will cover your living expenses including the biggest expenses (rental in SF and mortgage in PA). You can get an approximation of net from the below website...

PaycheckCity.com | Paycheck Calculator Result

If you're total expenses (EVERY conceivable expense) including but not limited to: utilities, rent in SF, property taxes in PA, homeowners insurance in PA, transportation costs, food, clothes, Starbucks lattes, rainy day fund, etc is less (hopefully by more than a dollar a month) than the total NET income...you'll have your answer.

For rentals in the city try Craigslist. The Sunset (particularly the Outer Sunset) area of San Francisco has inlaw units (legal and illegal) and it's not as popular by the single/couple crowd who may be looking for more exciting neighborhoods but you may find a lower priced rental.

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

That's not my point. Apple, HP, and Intel have moved large amounts of their workforce to Austin, Texas and managed to attract plenty of domestic and foreign born engineers. You're trying to paint Austin like it's some back water hillbilly town. Have you been to Austin?

This all goes back to my original point, the OP is going to trade her fairly nice middle class lifestyle for living a much LOWER quality of life by having to cram into a 1-2 bedroom apartment. For some reason, young people like yourself think that's normal and fine. I guess I'm from a different generation where you paid for things based on your income, not the amount of credit you could leverage.

mod cutFor those that are interested.

Companies are developing here in the Bay Area--not leaving as you keep suggesting. Sure, many companies open up offices in places like Austin but most of those are generally satellite or global offices and not where the companies are actually headquartered..

Here's some further proof that the market is EXPANDING and developing here and not packing up for other states as you suggest... Developer buys 30 acres in North San Jose, plans major tech campus - San Jose Mercury News

I actually just heard about this on the radio today and they were discussing how several thousands of people will be needed for these jobs.

My husband has worked for many companies in Silicon Valley and a Bay Area/Silicon Valley address is very valuable indeed. Even the smallest little start up has much more credibility, competition and resources if they are located here. Just thought I'd let you know.

[DocGoldstein]

See there is a misconception that start-ups are valuable just because of addresses, hype and smoke. It's really about revenue. I think the FB and Zynga IPOs proved that is what is most important to investors.

It takes strong proven profitability year after year to attract investors. Companies that are profitable are valuable. That's what investors care about (as a fairly active investor in the startup community in Silicon Valley, and around the country, this has been my experience). I was an early investor in an online legal services company based in Santa Clara County, and the only reason I invested my money was because of their 3 year revenue report. My investment has since more than TRIPLED, so I'd say it was a great investment. The funny thing is that company is now moving the bulk of their work force to Texas.

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

That's not my point. Apple, HP, and Intel have moved large amounts of their workforce to Austin, Texas and managed to attract plenty of domestic and foreign born engineers. You're trying to paint Austin like it's some back water hillbilly town. Have you been to Austin?

This all goes back to my original point, the OP is going to trade her fairly nice middle class lifestyle for living a much LOWER quality of life by having to cram into a 1-2 bedroom apartment. For some reason, young people like yourself think that's normal and fine. I guess I'm from a different generation where you paid for things based on your income, not the amount of credit you could leverage.

Yes Austin TX has some growth in tech and Dallas also has a lot but its nowhere even comparable to bay area. And those jobs are going to TX not because of high taxes in CA because TX is developing just like everywhere else in the world. I actually love Austin and would love to move there but there are zero job prospects for me over there. I can't be outside of Bay Area or Boston even if I wish to.. Maybe NYC, San Diego or DC will work too.

TX creates a lot of low end jobs and people doing those jobs can have a good life there because of the low housing cost. But if you are highly educated and work in tech/biotech then TX is not the place to be.

Not everyone in SF pays outrageous rent and some still pay a small % of income in rent. Go take a look at this map:
What Percent Are You? - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

And you will see average income is way way higher in bay area compared to Austin. So bay area is not expensive for people who are in the right line or work. They can afford to pay the high cost and that's why among all the gloom and doom property price and rent are going up here like crazy!

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by andyadhi01

And you will see average income is way way higher in bay area compared to Austin. So bay area is not expensive for people who are in the right line or work.

The census stats don't support your point.

The median household income in S.F is $71,304 . While that is high, the median home sold price is $755,000. That's almost an 11x income multiplier.

The median household income in Austin is lower at $50,520, but the median home sold price is only $225,000, which is about a 4.5x multiplier.

While people make more in S.F, it's still a lot more expensive to live in S.F than it is in Austin, and the extra money is wiped out by difference in the cost of living.

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

The census stats don't support your point.

The median household income in S.F is $71,304 . While that is high, the median home sold price is $755,000. That's almost an 11x income multiplier.

The median household income in Austin is lower at $50,520, but the median home sold price is only $225,000, which is about a 4.5x multiplier.

While people make more in S.F, it's still a lot more expensive to live in S.F than it is in Austin, and the extra money is wiped out by difference in the cost of living.

I agree that bay area is tough for people making the median income. But there are enough high income people keeping the housing prices high. And these high income people are not leaving bay area and definitely not leaving bay area to move to some low tax state down south ... I wish they did because they are pricing out everyone else.

In any case, Austin is way overrated. Dallas and Houston are much better cities when it comes to TX cities.

[Carlite]

Do you want to live in San Francisco? Or in the Bay Area? There are many pluses here--great climate, beautiful scenery, terrific food, diverse population, social tolerance, numerous arts activities, interesting cityscapes. It is more expensive. There is more traffic congestion. What kind of place do you want to live in? If you plan to have kids what kind of place do you want your kids to grow up in? I love living here though I'm sure that elsewhere I could buy a house that's larger than the 1,200 square foot one that we have. I'm happy that at my daughter's public high school there's some value placed on smart kids, not just cheerleaders and athletes. American cities share many things, but the Bay Area is something of a special place if you value its special characteristics. If it's just going to be an expensive hassle then don't bother.

[luau]

SF is not worth it. There are some areas in the Bay Area that are. /Thread

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by andyadhi01

I wish they did because they are pricing out everyone else.

That's exactly my original point. The middle class is leaving California in droves, and as someone who realized the importance of having a middle class in California, it's not good news. Jobs are leaving, people are leaving, and all you will have left when it's all done is people on welfare and public assistance, or $250,000+ households. Does that sound like a state that someone who is middle class would want to move to? Instead of denying the problem exist, I think you should confront it.

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

That's exactly my original point. The middle class is leaving California in droves, and as someone who realized the importance of having a middle class in California, it's not good news. Jobs are leaving, people are leaving, and all you will have left when it's all done is people on welfare and public assistance, or $250,000+ households. Does that sound like a state that someone who is middle class would want to move to? Instead of denying the problem exist, I think you should confront it.

$250,000 annual income is middle class here and there are lots of them. Also dont forget that people who bought houses long time back have really low cost of living