Does anyone else wish the Oakland hype would just go away? (San Diego: condos, neighborhoods)

[jade408]

Very true. West Oakland's big challenge is the lack of commercial development (likely due to perceived demographics).

This makes it less attractive for many newbies. You have a hike, especially if you are careless, for basic amenities.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by matt345

I honestly do see West Oakland changing eventually, and frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. The place has beautiful Victorian architecture, it's probably the most "city-ish" neighborhood outside of downtown, and it has a faster commute into downtown SF than many areas of SF itself. East Oakland on the other hand....I just don't see that happening anytime soon. Not only because of the crime problem, but also because of the way it's built. It has a very 1950's suburban feel to it - large swaths of one-story single family homes sprawling in all directions with a relatively low number of commercial districts. Aesthetically, East Oakland looks more like Hayward or San Leandro than Rockridge, Temescal, Grand Lake, or West Oakland.

What are you referring to as East Oakland, everything east of Lake Merritt or the area around the Coliseum? You accurately described Deep East Oakland, not so much the Eastlake or Fruitvale area. Oakland's densest neighborhoods are in Eastlake/Fruitvale and it has the street activity to show for it. West Oakland by comparison has no street activity outside of San Pablo Avenue and has very, very little commercial activity. International Blvd between 5th and 14th alone has more activity than all of West Oakland, never mind Fruitvale. The built environment in Eastlake and Fruitvale is a lot more diverse than West Oakland and has a lot of styles you don't really see in the rest of Oakland outside of the downtown area... For example there's a lot of art deco apartment buildings in both Eastlake and Fruitvale.

East Oakland gets thrown under the bus a lot by people who've never actually spent any real time there... It's the #1 reason why Oakland's my favorite city in the Bay Area. The cultural integration of the area is not seen anywhere else in the Bay - including the rest of Oakland - and the amount of unique culture it's generated over the last 30 years is nothing short of incredible.

[04kL4nD]

Which parts of East Oakland are YOU talking about?

I really like Maxwell Park, Fruitvale, Dimond, Laurel, Millsmont, and of course the Hills/Montclair are great too. I think when people mean 'scary East Oakland', they are talking about the Deep, no?

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Which parts of East Oakland are YOU talking about?

I really like Maxwell Park, Fruitvale, Dimond, Laurel, Millsmont, and of course the Hills/Montclair are great too. I think when people mean 'scary East Oakland', they are talking about the Deep, no?

I've already said what parts I'm talking about, my comments were about Eastlake (everything south of 580 between Fruitvale and Lake Merritt) and Fruitvale.

And yeah, that's why I asked him to clarify what he means by East Oakland. To those of us who grew up in Oakland, East Oakland is the avenues (14th, 35th, 98th, etc)... someone from Fruitvale is from East Oakland the same way that someone from Brookfield is from East Oakland.

[04kL4nD]

Ah Ok.

I think the term "East Oakland" is really problematic for outsiders. If the dividing line starts just past the Lake, that's more than 2/3rds of the city. Obviously there are really, really nice areas that lie within East Oakland, and it seems like most people just lump them in with the really, really bad parts.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Ah Ok.

I think the term "East Oakland" is really problematic for outsiders. If the dividing line starts just past the Lake, that's more than 2/3rds of the city. Obviously there are really, really nice areas that lie within East Oakland, and it seems like most people just lump them in with the really, really bad parts.

Yeah, East Oakland's by far the biggest side of the city which makes it even more of a joke that it's talked about like it's one neighborhood. You pretty much nailed it though... it would be like if no one referred to Rockridge, Temescal, etc. individually and instead just lump-summed them under "North Oakland" and people made comments like "North Oakland's horrible" all the time, only in East Oakland's case it's even more egregious because it's more than the 3x the size of North Oakland.

Frankly though areas with a lot of black people tend to get the same sort of treatment no matter where you are in America... names like "South Side Chicago", "South Los Angeles", etc. are ironically used more by people who've never been there than they are by the people who live there. For the people who live in South LA it's Hyde Park, Crenshaw, West Adams, etc... "South LA" holds no real meaning other than being the moniker of the general area where suburban people are scared to drive through.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

What are you referring to as East Oakland, everything east of Lake Merritt or the area around the Coliseum? You accurately described Deep East Oakland, not so much the Eastlake or Fruitvale area. Oakland's densest neighborhoods are in Eastlake/Fruitvale and it has the street activity to show for it. West Oakland by comparison has no street activity outside of San Pablo Avenue and has very, very little commercial activity. International Blvd between 5th and 14th alone has more activity than all of West Oakland, never mind Fruitvale. The built environment in Eastlake and Fruitvale is a lot more diverse than West Oakland and has a lot of styles you don't really see in the rest of Oakland outside of the downtown area... For example there's a lot of art deco apartment buildings in both Eastlake and Fruitvale.

East Oakland gets thrown under the bus a lot by people who've never actually spent any real time there... It's the #1 reason why Oakland's my favorite city in the Bay Area. The cultural integration of the area is not seen anywhere else in the Bay - including the rest of Oakland - and the amount of unique culture it's generated over the last 30 years is nothing short of incredible.

+1 Well stated.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Ah Ok.

I think the term "East Oakland" is really problematic for outsiders. If the dividing line starts just past the Lake, that's more than 2/3rds of the city. Obviously there are really, really nice areas that lie within East Oakland, and it seems like most people just lump them in with the really, really bad parts.

Especially when those outsiders realize that East Oakland is more south then anything. My ex had that issue when she was here. She didn't understand why San Leandro was south of Oakland in the same general direction she went to go east.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

Frankly though areas with a lot of black people tend to get the same sort of treatment no matter where you are in America... names like "South Side Chicago", "South Los Angeles", etc. are ironically used more by people who've never been there than they are by the people who live there. For the people who live in South LA it's Hyde Park, Crenshaw, West Adams, etc... "South LA" holds no real meaning other than being the moniker of the general area where suburban people are scared to drive through.

Very good observation! I remember when I was in San Diego, the area with a lot of blacks was just "Southeast" San Diego. It took a city council member who represented that area to get locals and the media to start referring to all those areas by their actual names.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Especially when those outsiders realize that East Oakland is more south then anything. My ex had that issue when she was here. She didn't understand why San Leandro was south of Oakland in the same general direction she went to go east.

Yea, the term "East Oakland" has always thrown me off, especially since I'm not a native and I first really learned the lay of the land through trusty old maps. I understand there is a historical context to the name, but when I first moved here, I had to remind myself that to get to "east" Oakland, you go south/north on 880. Then people start saying things like "go south" of 580...when it's really more "west" of 580...furthering the confusion.

It kind of reminds me of "down east" Maine, which is actually up (north), not down (south). The historical context comes from the fact that sailors in the early days of setting New England would sail "downwind" from Boston to get there...but today, the term can be confusing without knowing that fact.