Possibly moving to SF - need help (San Francisco, Oakland: real estate, apartments)
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My wife and I currently live in Madison WI and would want to move somewhere else. We are considering many places and the biggest factors are safety, job opportunities, ability to save, can get by comfortably without a car.
I have more than 5 years of finance experience in corporations, hold a Economics and a MBA. I've also worked in the University. My wife has an Associates degree. She has about 10 years of working experience.
Is it possible for us to make it in SF? I had originally ruled it out as apartment pricing seems ridiculously high. But I realize we could live somewhere not within the city but still be able to get to the city because transport is good.
The weather in Wisconsin is also too cold, with freezing rain and incredible wind speed, blowing all kinds of things off into the streets. She also has had shift work for the most part in Wisconsin and that is a deal breaker for us.
Would my wife be able to get a 8 - 5 job in SF and still be safe with the transport system?
What's the lowest in rent price I could expect living outside SF but still be able to commute to work there? Neighborhood has to be safe too.
Best places outside SF without a car would be Oakland or Berkeley.
1 bed new building $3,500+
1 bed old building $2,000 minimum (can find cheaper but not many available and loads of competition)
There is a micro unit in Oak called The Nook - 175 sq. ft. for around $1,600. It was just built. Nook on Valdez
Safe is relative. Lots of crime in the area. I'd recommend NYC over the Bay Area for what you are looking for. You can find something in a good hood in Queens. Good luck.
If you live in the Richmond or Sunset districts apartment prices are a bit lower. But you still have to figure at least $1800 for small studio, $2300 for a 1-bedroom. You can survive without a car there although it's a pain because it'll take you about an hour to get to downtown by bus.
It makes sense to move here if you have a job lined up either as a techie or as a startuper. If you're coming here with no job and don't know how to code/manager - your life will be rather tough, especially at the beginning.
SF has plenty of finance-related jobs in the Financial District. Depends on what your experience is. Your wife wouldn't have to get a job in SF; she could look for a job in the East Bay, if you choose to live there. What kind of work does she do--office admin? Lots of those jobs everywhere, including at the universities and colleges in the area. A
Look for rentals in Albany and El Cerrito, for slightly lower rates than you'd find in Berkeley. Another "bargain" rent area (this is a very relative term in the Bay Area) is Fremont, though rents seem to be catching up with Berkeley/Oakland. All the places I mention are on the BART commuter train line. 1 br. apts. in Albany rent for between $1700 to $2200. Here's a listing in Fremont: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/apa/6095050905.html
The Richmond District in San Francisco is a great neighborhood, but the commute to downtown is long, unless you get an express bus. The advantage of the East Bay is that it's sunnier over there. In certain seasons, the outer Richmond (closer to the beach) is frequently fogged in. The Inner Richmond--not quite as much. You can do a search on Craigslist for rentals in both inner & outer Richmond Dist. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/6088477578.html
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 04-20-2017 at 01:20 AM..
SF has plenty of finance-related jobs in the Financial District. Depends on what your experience is. Your wife wouldn't have to get a job in SF; she could look for a job in the East Bay, if you choose to live there. What kind of work does she do--office admin? Lots of those jobs everywhere, including at the universities and colleges in the area. A
Look for rentals in Albany and El Cerrito, for slightly lower rates than you'd find in Berkeley. Another "bargain" rent area (this is a very relative term in the Bay Area) is Fremont, though rents seem to be catching up with Berkeley/Oakland. All the places I mention are on the BART commuter train line. 1 br. apts. in Albany rent for between $1700 to $2200. Here's a listing in Fremont: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/apa/6095050905.html
El Cerrito and Albany are not very car-free friendly. They don't have frequent transit with broad coverage. There are a few apartments that would be doable without a car, but not much. Unless you just want to walk for 20 minutes for most trips.
The Bay Area is not the place for you and your family. I'd look elsewhere. Maybe Portland. Even Denver. It is really expensive for a newcomer.
Did you go to a top tier business school? Have you reached out to your alumni network? Can you build connections here? It is not very easy to get a job here without those connections.
You didn't really clarify your wife's skillset, but what you mentioned isn't super in demand. If your heart is set on the Bay Area - start applying for jobs and plan to take a trip here. See if you get any bites. You'll need at least 3X the salary you make in Madison to come close to the same standard of living.
Very true what Jade said about having an MBA from a top school and great work experience. You will be competing against every Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, etc. MBAs with great experience as well as internal people within those companies that post job openings.
Not sure about 3x salary because we don't know what you are making in Madison, but standard of living really depends on what you value. Having a nice new apartment in Wisconsin for only $1,500-$1,800 wouldn't be worth it to me. I'd rather have an older, smaller more expensive place and be able to be outside in the winter. This is a great place to work and many job opportunities, for now anyway, so if you have the experience go for it.
Very true what Jade said about having an MBA from a top school and great work experience. You will be competing against every Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, etc. MBAs with great experience as well as internal people within those companies that post job openings.
Not sure about 3x salary because we don't know what you are making in Madison, but standard of living really depends on what you value. Having a nice new apartment in Wisconsin for only $1,500-$1,800 wouldn't be worth it to me. I'd rather have an older, smaller more expensive place and be able to be outside in the winter. This is a great place to work and many job opportunities, for now anyway, so if you have the experience go for it.
Madison is pretty inexpensive. A pretty good one bedroom is about $1000. Food costs and such are also pretty inexpensive. As is eating out, going to bars, socializing and the like. Heating costs might be somewhat expensive, but overall cost of living is low.
And to be honest we have pretty sucky insulation here, so if you are in a not well designed place, your heating costs can be expensive. Since I don't have central heating - just a radiator on one wall and old appliances- my monthly electric bill is $70-80 for a studio. And I don't even leave the heat on at night most of the time. My sister paid half in Chicago for a similar space because it was better insulated. So don't think that heating and cooling will be significantly cheaper because our temps are mild.
A friend of mine lived there for a while and her typical salary afforded her a lot. She was able to buy a 2 bedroom condo and drive a newish used car on about 40-50k. This was a few years ago. Now her and her husband are making far more - as engineers at large tech companies but they aren't able to afford as much - and real estate is pretty out of reach even with 2 frugal high income earners. That's why I say 3x. It is pretty close to reality.
Agree with Jade, but also, if homeownership and children are in your plans, *especially* if both are, and you are not interested in moving here temporarily (for a few years), then you need to learn just how expensive it is here (probably beyond your imagination) to purchase even a 1000 to 1300 home in adequate (not fancy) suburb with a decent school district that is also within reasonable commuting distance (NOTE: traffic is very bad here) for two workers. And then, look at your possible income trajectory and see if it matches up to housing costs, while taking into account all of smart savings needs.
My guess is that unless you have x00,000k already in the bank, or can easily get north of 200k household income, then this move would mean several probably uncomfortable steps down in living standards. And for what? More days on your patio with your neighbor's shingles 15 feet away from your face? Do you camp? Do you seriously make trips to the mountains? If one doesn't, that makes the weather-only premium even higher. It's great here if you can have the level of lifestyle you want - but you need to be aware of what your limitations will be.
I have a friend who moved from the Bay Area back home to Madison.....he got married, built a 2500 sq foot custom house there on two middle tier incomes, and would never come back here. That house would cost $2m plus here.
The great weather does not even come close to compensating for constant financial stress about achieving the level of comfort one needs....and I'm not talking about luxuries.
For pure weather (even warmer), and for a noticeable step down in price (tho still expensive), you could look at coastal areas south of LA. If you can handle clouds, the pacific northwest. I'd think about Denver also. I'm from NYC area originally, and I can tell you the winters are much much milder than in WI.
Hi,
biggest factors are safety, job opportunities, ability to save, can get by comfortably without a car.
Safety: It is relatively safe in Bay Area in terms of serious crimes. However, there are a lot of property crimes, burglary, breaking into cars, stolen items.
Job opportunity: Great for high tech and software. I don't know about finance field.
Ability to save: Low, due to high cost of living and rent.
Get by without car: Yes, you can get by, if you live in SF. Downside is that you are limited on weekend excursion. If you live in nearby city in Bay Area, I just don't see that as viable. Housing choices will be extremely limited as you have to be right next to BART or Caltran.
Madison is pretty inexpensive. A pretty good one bedroom is about $1000. Food costs and such are also pretty inexpensive. As is eating out, going to bars, socializing and the like. Heating costs might be somewhat expensive, but overall cost of living is low.
And to be honest we have pretty sucky insulation here, so if you are in a not well designed place, your heating costs can be expensive. Since I don't have central heating - just a radiator on one wall and old appliances- my monthly electric bill is $70-80 for a studio. And I don't even leave the heat on at night most of the time. My sister paid half in Chicago for a similar space because it was better insulated. So don't think that heating and cooling will be significantly cheaper because our temps are mild.
A friend of mine lived there for a while and her typical salary afforded her a lot. She was able to buy a 2 bedroom condo and drive a newish used car on about 40-50k. This was a few years ago. Now her and her husband are making far more - as engineers at large tech companies but they aren't able to afford as much - and real estate is pretty out of reach even with 2 frugal high income earners. That's why I say 3x. It is pretty close to reality.
Sure it's cheap to live there, didn't realize it's that cheap, but if he is making even $120k there, he wouldn't need $360k here unless he is living in a 6,000 sf house there already. Plus, that's why I said standard of living is up to that person. He has an MBA and if it's from an elite, at minimum top 20 school, in finance he could find a job paying close to $175k with 5 years of experience post MBA, more if he has relevant experience prior to MBA. Again, top school and relevant experience. New MBAs from most top 20 schools get paid $110-$130k base, plus bonus of 20-50% nowadays in many professions.
If I were to make a move today, though, I would first look in SoCal, as salaries are not that much lower, and cost of living is lower, along with much nicer weather especially if you like the beach. But if you like cities then SF is the place I would imagine coming from Wisconsin.
I would think gas/electric bill would be significantly lower here. We lived in Texas and had ok insulation and our electric/gas bills would average $300 from Nov-Feb and then get up to over $400 in summer. Wisconsin wouldn't be as bad in the summer, but would have to imagine it's bad in winter regardless of insulation. Here, our highest PG&E bill was $238 this winter, and that's heating a jacuzzi that added close to $80-$100 more to our bill and this was one terrible winter in my opinion.
Ok, I wrote too much, but am in general agreement with you, just don't agree completely on the standard of living as Wisconsin would be a pretty crappy standard of living for me, and sounds like the OP wants out.
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